The runner on second in extra innings rule - it sucks

Fender57

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So I watched the first exhibition game last night between the Padres and Angels and with the Angels on top 1-0 after 9 both teams decided to go to extra innings to try the new runner on second rule. I know it was only the first time but I felt it was so foreign and really violated the spirit of baseball. Kind of how I felt when they installed the instant intentional walk rule, which eliminated four plays in which something could happen. Except the runner on second base is worse. I feel extra innings are earned, always have been, and to bastardize this by having a runner on second negates all of the hard work put in by both teams to get to the 10th.

I get why they’re doing it but it still doesn’t make it right. I don’t believe for one second the game itself, pandemic aside, will kill itself because it’s not fast-paced enough.
 
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Lance19

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So I watched the first exhibition game last night between the Padres and Angels and with the Angels on top 1-0 after 9 both teams decided to go to extra innings to try the new runner on second rule. I know it was only the first time but I felt it was so foreign and really violated the spirit of baseball. Kind of how I felt when they installed the instant intentional walk rule, which eliminated four plays in which something could happen. Except the runner on second base is worse. I feel extra innings are earned, always have been, and to bastardize this by having a runner on second negates all of the hard work put in by both teams to get to the 10th.

I get why they’re doing it but it still doesn’t make it right. I don’t believe for one second the game itself, pandemic aside, will kill itself because it’s not fast-paced enough.
Totally understand. I thought it was a joke when I first read the new rule.

But then, as a former goalkeeper, I always thought that the concept of penalty kicks to decide ties
was absurd. Totally "violated the spirit" of the game, in your words.

But it's 2020. And a 60 game season. Nothing is normal.
I also "get why they’re doing it" and for now...Ima just chalk it up to the crazy times...
 

Fender57

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I don’t think the runner on second rule is just for this shortened season. It’s a test run.
 

Lance19

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I don’t think the runner on second rule is just for this shortened season. It’s a test run.
I don't know. On one hand, when I made my post a couple of hours ago, I was not aware
that this new rule had been a thing in the minors for the last two seasons.

On the other hand, Laura Albanese--who dislikes the 2020 rule--at Newsday wrote (6/28):
"The new extra-inning rule isn’t the end of baseball, and likely will disappear after 2020."
(she likes the Nippon league practice of letting tied games go 12 innings, then accepting the tie)

Something I read (can't find it now) said MLB proposed the rule for 2020 & 2021,
but players only agreed to 2020, as a negotiating tool to reduce the number of games
(which, at that time, was from 82 [?] down to 70 [?]...but I don't think I read anything more recent + definitive)
 

Fender57

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I'm curious to see how it goes this season. beats blowing through your bullpen having to play endless innings.
My viewpoint is this: if you (not you, Ray, but the guys that run MLB) don’t want to make your pitcher actually pitch in extra innings, just have a HR Derby after a 9-inning tie. Each side pick a guy, give him 5 swings, the batter with the most HRs wins the game for his team. Still a tie? Each team pick another player. If everyone is worried about ratings and are willing to sacrifice the essence of the sport, at least make it entertaining. The runner on second looks cheap.
 

Lance19

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My viewpoint is this: if you (not you, Ray, but the guys that run MLB) don’t want to make your pitcher actually pitch in extra innings, just have a HR Derby after a 9-inning tie. Each side pick a guy, give him 5 swings, the batter with the most HRs wins the game for his team. Still a tie? Each team pick another player. If everyone is worried about ratings and are willing to sacrifice the essence of the sport, at least make it entertaining. The runner on second looks cheap.
I think the "HR Derby" idea would be fun to watch...
(but I wouldn't wanna be the guy who had to defend it as more "real baseball" than the runner on 2nd plan...) :whistling:
 

Fender57

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I think the "HR Derby" idea would be fun to watch...
(but I wouldn't wanna be the guy who had to defend it as more "real baseball" than the runner on 2nd plan...) :whistling:
If you’re trying to be cute and say I’m using it as a defense, you’re wrong. I never said it was more real, I used it as an example of something equally denigrating, but as you point out, more fun. My wish is for the runner on second idea to die, bring back the real four pitch intentional walk, ban the stupid infield shift, and get rid of the DH. However I’m not so naive to think my way of thinking is the “progressive” direction MLB is embarking on.
 

Lance19

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If you’re trying to be cute and say I’m using it as a defense, you’re wrong. I never said it was more real, I used it as an example of something equally denigrating, but as you point out, more fun. My wish is for the runner on second idea to die, bring back the real four pitch intentional walk, ban the stupid infield shift, and get rid of the DH. However I’m not so naive to think my way of thinking is the “progressive” direction MLB is embarking on.
Well, I just am cute...there's little I could try that would change that much in either direction.

Actually I meant just what I said. In different words: HR derby would be entertaining, and, if the argument
is that the 2nd base thing "violates the spirit of baseball" (re. the OP) then I don't wanna be the guy to
to try argue that a HR derby doesn't "violate the spirit of baseball" as much or more.
Or, if by "cute" you meant, did I see the humor in that? Then the answer is that I did. :tup: No biggie.
 

Fender57

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Well, I just am cute...there's little I could try that would change that much in either direction.

Actually I meant just what I said. In different words: HR derby would be entertaining, and, if the argument
is that the 2nd base thing "violates the spirit of baseball" (re. the OP) then I don't wanna be the guy to
to try argue that a HR derby doesn't "violate the spirit of baseball" as much or more.
Or, if by "cute" you meant, did I see the humor in that? Then the answer is that I did. :tup: No biggie.
By cute I meant you were insinuating that the OP (me) would try to defend the HR Derby suggestion after stating was an atrocity the runner at 2B idea is - that’s how I took you’re little “cute” emoji.
 

Lance19

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By cute I meant you were insinuating that the OP (me) would try to defend the HR Derby suggestion after stating was an atrocity the runner at 2B idea is - that’s how I took you’re little “cute” emoji.
Well, that was my initial impression (not that it matters much).

After going back, and re-reading, I see that you put "willing to sacrifice the essence of the sport"
in there, so I guess I missed that nuance. At the end of the day, both pervert the game
(just as penalty kicks do)...but given the reasonable goal of having shorter games during a 60 game
season, I'm not gonna get too upset about the 2nd base thing.

Now, if MLB went to penalty kicks, then yeah, I'd be fucking inflamed!!
 

Fender57

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Well, that was my initial impression (not that it matters much).
It matters a lot because you mischaracterized what I posted.

After going back, and re-reading, I see that you put "willing to sacrifice the essence of the sport"
in there, so I guess I missed that nuance.
Yes you did.


At the end of the day, both pervert the game
(just as penalty kicks do)...but given the reasonable goal of having shorter games during a 60 game
season, I'm not gonna get too upset about the 2nd base thing.
Has no relevance to your reply to me. Just deflecting after trying to characterize me as an idiot.

A “sorry” would’ve been an appropriate reply from you. Or no reply at all if that’s too difficult.
 

Lance19

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It matters a lot because you mischaracterized what I posted.


Yes you did.



Has no relevance to your reply to me. Just deflecting after trying to characterize me as an idiot.

A “sorry” would’ve been an appropriate reply from you. Or no reply at all if that’s too difficult.
I think you're taking my lighthearted comment a lot heavier than it was intended.

No one was calling you an idiot.

But if you really think a "sorry" is appropriate, well, sorry.
 

Fender57

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I think you're taking my lighthearted comment a lot heavier than it was intended.

No one was calling you an idiot.

But if you really think a "sorry" is appropriate, well, sorry.
Typical. As always, everything backhanded, can’t just sincerely admit you were wrong. It’s like you have this mental block to see yourself as anything but infallible.
 

Concudan

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It matters a lot because you mischaracterized what I posted.


Yes you did.



Has no relevance to your reply to me. Just deflecting after trying to characterize me as an idiot.

A “sorry” would’ve been an appropriate reply from you. Or no reply at all if that’s too difficult.
No... he wouldn't do that. That is what he complains about others doing when he argues with them...
 
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Harryo the K

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Runner starts on 2nd base?
Okay. But he has to be the heaviest player on the team.

We want to be entertained.
 

Fender57

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It was pointed out to me that the international softball rules has this rule in effect and it has been adopted at the NCAA level. They have a whole slough of nuances including making this rule optional (has to be decided before the game) as softball allows for tie games. The NCAA rules state the runner on second rule can’t be used until after a regulation game (post 7th inning) and can be invoked at any inning (agreed upon pregame) - the NCAA recommends the 10th inning.

Note: the NCAA also has an eight-run mercy rule.

 

Savage Lizard

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But then, as a former goalkeeper, I always thought that the concept of penalty kicks to decide ties
was absurd. Totally "violated the spirit" of the game, in your words.
I HATE penalty kicks to decide a game. Play 90 minutes of regular soccer, then 30 minutes more of regular soccer, and if it's all still tied, let's play a mini-game to decide it. Never mind that it isn't usually about who is better, it's more about who fucks up more often.

Also a former goalie, as well as everything else. But I always like playing goalie best. That's me in red in the center, and YES that is on the field at Jack Murphy Stadium in 1982. We played a pre-game before the NASL version of the Sockers. Tied 1-1, and the Lizard STONED a dude on a 1 on 1 breakaway to keep the game tied. Got a nice round of applause from a few thousand people who were there early.

81 Club America.jpg


To get this shit back on topic, I actually kind of like the man on 2nd rule. Not a big fan of the multi-extra inning games.
 
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Harryo the K

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I HATE penalty kicks to decide a game. Play 90 minutes of regular soccer, then 30 minutes more of regular soccer, and if it's all still tied, let's play a mini-game to decide it. Never mind that it isn't usually about who is better, it's more about who fucks up more often.

Also a former goalie, as well as everything else. But I always like playing goalie best. That's me in red in the center, and YES that is on the field at Jack Murphy Stadium in 1982. We played a pre-game before the NASL version of the Sockers. Tied 1-1, and the Lizard STONED a dude on a 1 on 1 breakaway to keep the game tied. Got a nice round of applause from a few thousand people who were there early.

View attachment 7740

To get this shit back on topic, I actually kind of like the man on 2nd rule. Not a big fan of the multi-extra inning games.

Savage, I know you've seen the Great Sterling and his play.
But damn, he was good. The game can be cruel in all its beauty.

 

Fender57

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Can you imagine if the runner on second rule existed in this situation? I remember watching Pedro Martinez take a perfecto into the 10th. Games like this makes baseball unique and beautiful. Putting a runner on second in the 10th mars that beauty.

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Gill Man

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That is an epic slice of baseball history right there. :tup: Another perfect illustration of how pitchers aren't half what they used to be.
 
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Gill Man

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gotta admit I was really suspicious , but winning 12-7 in sudden death was fun. Of course had it been the other way around I'd have blamed the rule. For example if we'd scored 3 and then they scored 4 in the 10th it would feel like shit. I cannot remember but how do they determine the batting order in that extra inning? Do they just continue on from the 9th with the batting order as is or does each team start with the top of the order, because that is huge in itself. IMO with a man on 2nd thrown in for free, both teams should be starting with the top of their order. Did that happen?
 

Fender57

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gotta admit I was really suspicious , but winning 12-7 in sudden death was fun. Of course had it been the other way around I'd have blamed the rule. For example if we'd scored 3 and then they scored 4 in the 10th it would feel like shit. I cannot remember but how do they determine the batting order in that extra inning? Do they just continue on from the 9th with the batting order as is or does each team start with the top of the order, because that is huge in itself. IMO with a man on 2nd thrown in for free, both teams should be starting with the top of their order. Did that happen?
They continue with the order. Last man at bat from the previous inning goes to second base.
 

TTK

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I like watching sports but it can be very time consuming. When a game goes to overtime or extra innings it starts to really take a toll, maybe interfering with other things that needs to be done. I'm all for speeding up the game, especially baseball since it's not as fast paced as most other sports. Things like a timer between pitches, or reducing the time when changing pitchers or speeding up extra innings are great IMO. Baseball has historically very resistant to change which I think has always been a big negative so I love the fact that they're finally doing some bold things.