• Welcome to America's Finest Sports Forum and Podcast!

    afsportsforum.com is one of the largest online communities covering San Diego sports. We host a regular podcast during the major seasons. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

The Big Gamble: Patrick Mahomes

Of course, the hater comes out to cherry pick in an overall incredible performance.

If you analyze the INTs, the first one was a fluke with a great catch by the defender. The second one he got hit when throwing and the third was thrown out of desperation with no time left.
Your post above has to be one of the most unintentionally funny posts ever.

FIVE TURNOVERS. Yeah, I really had to stretch to find some sort of irrelevant stat to use against Mahomes. I mean it's not like Mahomes gave the Rams 21 points and then threw INTs in the clutch on his last two drives on top of that. Oh, wait a minute.

Your take is as laughably ridiculous as it gets. On the first INT, Mahomes had terrible footwork (which anyone with working eyes, including the announcers, could see plain as day) and, by his own admission, he just ended up lobbing the ball (which is what happens sometimes when the footwork is poor). The pass was total crap and got picked off.

The second INT happened because Mahomes 1) waited 5 seconds to throw the ball, 2) moved to his left from the right side of the field despite the fact that he was throwing to the right side of the field and his pass blocker appeared to have outside right leverage on Ebukam, essentially moving into Ebukam's pass rush, 3) again had poor footwork and had to throw back against his own body (because of his own movement error), and 4) because Ebukam, after scoring on a fumble return and an INT return (including running Mahomes' dumb a$$ over), once again made Mahomes his b!tch.

The third INT happened because Mahomes failed to move his team effectively or manage the game clock effectively on the final drive, so he just threw it up for grabs. It was a desperation throw, I agree, but only because of his own failure to move the team down the field. As Fowler said after the game, Mahomes looked rattled in the clutch. I think that and frustration on Mahomes' part were very evident. He had 50 seconds and a timeout and he needed 50 yards for a game tying FG attempt. That is enough time to accomplish that, especially with the tools that Mahomes has available to him.

Mahomes had two chances to secure at least a game tying FG and he blew both of them with INTs. He came up small in the clutch on both of those drives and failed to move the team effectively in 3 of their last 4 drives.

The fumbles were also 100% on Mahomes. The sacks by themselves would not have been, but both times he knew pressure was there and he did nothing protect the ball (perhaps not realizing that Donald is faster than he is), so the fumbles are on him all the way.

The above mistakes are why the Chiefs lost.
 
No doubt! Let's just ignore all of the following. Obviously Mahomes is overrated:laugh: And let's not forget he's just 23 and in what is essentially his rookie year. Jeebus H. If this doesn't warrant superlatives all over the place I dont know what does :
» Patrick Mahomes joins Ben Roethlisberger (2014) and Y.A. Tittle (1962) as the only player since 1950 with two games with 6-plus pass TD in a single season. It was Mahomes' second game with 6-plus pass TD in his first 12 career games (no other player has even 1 such game since 1950).

» Mahomes had his sixth game of 4-plus pass TD this season (T-2nd most in a season since 1950; Peyton Manning, 9).

» Mahomes is the fifth QB since 1950 to throw six pass TD in a losing effort: Eli Manning (Week 8, 2015), Carson Palmer (Week 2, 2007), Dan Marino (Week 3, 1986), Charley Johnson (Week 7, 1969).
Look at the TD passes from Monday night's game one by one. Please tell me if there are any that any starting NFL QB would not be expected to make.

1. The first TD to Hill was closer than it should have been because Mahomes underthrew the pass to a wide open Hill who was behind the coverage and separating (because he is the fastest player in the league).

2. On the second TD to Hill, his defender fell down. Hill was running straight up the field with nobody covering him.

3. Nobody covered Hunt on the screen pass to him. Even after the ball was caught, the nearest defender was 5 yards away. The play was brilliantly designed as Hill was put in jet sweep motion heading to the left to set up the screen to the right.

4. Kelce scored on a crossing route where there was no defender within 3 yards of him.

5. On Conley's second TD, two Ram defenders collided. When Conley caught the ball, there may not have been a legitimate pass defender (not a DL player) within 10 yards (and this was in the red zone).

6. The most difficult of the TD passes was the short pass to Conley made by Mahomes as he moved to his left. It was still pretty easy as he had two guys open.

By NFL standards, all of the above, with the possible exception of the last one, are very simple passes.

My issue with you guys drooling all over Mahomes is that all of these throws and most of his TD throws all season long have been like these--really easy pitch and catch stuff. I am not disputing that Mahomes has physcial tools, but there is not a starting QB in the league that would not be lighting it up with the play calling and talent that KC has on offense.

With fewer offensive weapons and a lesser scheme last year, Alex Smith posted a 104.7 passer rating. His passer rating this year with a lesser offense and despite liberalized passing rules is nearly 20 points lower. That should tell you something about just how good KC's offense is outside of the QB position.

KC's success is simply more about their scheme and weapons than it is about Mahomes. Put Mahomes on the Bills and they are still a losing team with a young, strong armed QB.
 
Dan Fouts: 254 TDS, 242 INTs, WHAT A PIECE OF CRAP QB!
You do get that the game was very different when Fouts played, don't you? When Fouts began his career, the Mel Blount rule did not exist. From that time until now, there have been many rule changes, almost all of which have helped offenses. The game is completely different now and the stats are too. Statistical comparisons across eras in terms of passing stats are just silly.
 
So both Marino and Fouts actually sucked?!?

(stupid HoF lied to me, again!!)
Again, you guys seem to think there is no problem with comparisons across eras as if the game in the 1980s was the same as it is now. Such an approach is wrong and foolish.

Also, you guys can't figure out who should be getting the credit for what KC is doing on offense. I will give you a hint. It is not Mahomes.
 

Concudan

Still Chargin
Staff member
Administrator
Look at the TD passes from Monday night's game one by one. Please tell me if there are any that any starting NFL QB would not be expected to make.

1. The first TD to Hill was closer than it should have been because Mahomes underthrew the pass to a wide open Hill who was behind the coverage and separating (because he is the fastest player in the league).

2. On the second TD to Hill, his defender fell down. Hill was running straight up the field with nobody covering him.

3. Nobody covered Hunt on the screen pass to him. Even after the ball was caught, the nearest defender was 5 yards away. The play was brilliantly designed as Hill was put in jet sweep motion heading to the left to set up the screen to the right.

4. Kelce scored on a crossing route where there was no defender within 3 yards of him.

5. On Conley's second TD, two Ram defenders collided. When Conley caught the ball, there may not have been a legitimate pass defender (not a DL player) within 10 yards (and this was in the red zone).

6. The most difficult of the TD passes was the short pass to Conley made by Mahomes as he moved to his left. It was still pretty easy as he had two guys open.

By NFL standards, all of the above, with the possible exception of the last one, are very simple passes.

My issue with you guys drooling all over Mahomes is that all of these throws and most of his TD throws all season long have been like these--really easy pitch and catch stuff. I am not disputing that Mahomes has physcial tools, but there is not a starting QB in the league that would not be lighting it up with the play calling and talent that KC has on offense.

With fewer offensive weapons and a lesser scheme last year, Alex Smith posted a 104.7 passer rating. His passer rating this year with a lesser offense and despite liberalized passing rules is nearly 20 points lower. That should tell you something about just how good KC's offense is outside of the QB position.

KC's success is simply more about their scheme and weapons than it is about Mahomes. Put Mahomes on the Bills and they are still a losing team with a young, strong armed QB.
My problem with your over simplification of Mahomes play is you are struggling soo hard to tray and say 'see i am right, Mahomes sucks' that you make yourself look like an idiot. All those 'simple' passes mentioned above. Were they made with one of the best DLs in the league bringing pressure on Mahomes....? Yes. Were the passes made? Yes. Has Mohomes played, played well and helped put his team in a position to make a deep playoff run? Yes. Yet you still try to hold on to your fantasy that they guy is terrible, no better than Alex Smith... Give it up already. Everyone in the sporting world is talking about his level of play, you are the only one trying to tear him down. If you are that desperate to be right, just say your right, and sit back and pat yourself on the back while Mahomes racks up more records in his record shattering season.

Your asinine attempt to say the comparison of last years QBR to this years QBR is laughable. They did not play the same games, same teams. KC is doing different things, and they have not changed a lot on offense, no matter what you want to say. If you are, as you put it drooling all over Smith, why not go get your Redskins jersey and follow him.

At least we would not have to point out the stupidity of your attempts to water down the spectacular play by an obviously talented QB.
 
The only reason Mahomes didn't have 6 turnovers is because everyone but you and that stellar officiating crew could see it was a forward pass. The fact that you even brought it up shows how petty you are.
Under the league's current rules, the play was a forward pass because Mahomes' arm was moving forward, but in reality the ball was never passed at all. It was knocked out by the defender. It was not a tipped or batted pass.

Mahomes sucked plenty with 5 turnovers as it was.
 

wrbanwal

Well-Known Member
My problem with your over simplification of Mahomes play is you are struggling soo hard to tray and say 'see i am right, Mahomes sucks' that you make yourself look like an idiot. All those 'simple' passes mentioned above. Were they made with one of the best DLs in the league bringing pressure on Mahomes....? Yes. Were the passes made? Yes. Has Mohomes played, played well and helped put his team in a position to make a deep playoff run? Yes. Yet you still try to hold on to your fantasy that they guy is terrible, no better than Alex Smith... Give it up already. Everyone in the sporting world is talking about his level of play, you are the only one trying to tear him down. If you are that desperate to be right, just say your right, and sit back and pat yourself on the back while Mahomes racks up more records in his record shattering season.

Your asinine attempt to say the comparison of last years QBR to this years QBR is laughable. They did not play the same games, same teams. KC is doing different things, and they have not changed a lot on offense, no matter what you want to say. If you are, as you put it drooling all over Smith, why not go get your Redskins jersey and follow him.

At least we would not have to point out the stupidity of your attempts to water down the spectacular play by an obviously talented QB.

Alex Smith is 10 times the QB even on one leg!!!

to soon???

:eek:
 
My problem with your over simplification of Mahomes play is you are struggling soo hard to tray and say 'see i am right, Mahomes sucks' that you make yourself look like an idiot. All those 'simple' passes mentioned above. Were they made with one of the best DLs in the league bringing pressure on Mahomes....? Yes. Were the passes made? Yes. Has Mohomes played, played well and helped put his team in a position to make a deep playoff run? Yes. Yet you still try to hold on to your fantasy that they guy is terrible, no better than Alex Smith... Give it up already. Everyone in the sporting world is talking about his level of play, you are the only one trying to tear him down. If you are that desperate to be right, just say your right, and sit back and pat yourself on the back while Mahomes racks up more records in his record shattering season.

Your asinine attempt to say the comparison of last years QBR to this years QBR is laughable. They did not play the same games, same teams. KC is doing different things, and they have not changed a lot on offense, no matter what you want to say. If you are, as you put it drooling all over Smith, why not go get your Redskins jersey and follow him.

At least we would not have to point out the stupidity of your attempts to water down the spectacular play by an obviously talented QB.
I have already acknowledged that I am not likely to be right about Mahomes' rating. When I said that Mahomes would have suck like Eli Manning for the rest of the season to crap himself down to a level where he would not have a higher rating than Smith did last year and admitted that that was not likely, that was a clear indication that I believe that I will end up being being wrong about that. So you can stop dreaming that I am clinging to some notion out of a desire to be right about something. You are clueless if that is what you think.

No, this is much simpler than that. I am trying to help you poor blind people see the truth.

If you were right, I would agree with you. Instead, I will encourage you not to be a sheep and not to just look at numbers or listen to simpletons trying to hype Mahomes.

No, Mahomes did not put his team in positon to win on Monday. He put his team in position to lose with 5 turnovers. He failed spectacularly and miserably in the clutch.

No, hell no, the TD passes on Monday night by Mahomes were not spectacular. That is asinine. Seriously, every starting QB in the league should make those passes and make them easily. It does not say much that he made those passes.

Further, the notion that the Rams somehow have a good defense is not statistically supported--23rd in yards allowed, 21st in points allowed. The Rams are 8th in sacks, but they have played one more game than the entire league except the Chiefs. They are tied with one team and have 5 teams within one sack of them (likely to pass them when they equalize in terms of games played). There was not any meaningful pressure on 5 of the 6 TD passes--simple pitch and catch. There was minor pressure on one of the TD passes.

Also, we will have to agree to disagree if you think KC is running the same offensive scheme in 2018 as they did in 2017. That is nuts. They did not run much RPO last year, did not use a tenth of the disguise and deception that they have used this year and did not use Hill running away from defenders on crossing routes as much as they have this year.

Finally, I do not think KC will make a deep playoff run. I think they will likely be one and done. Their offense is good, but their defense is bad. As good as their offense is, it can be stopped--at least at times and has been by defenses that are not even all that good. In the playoffs, I see the Chiefs not scoring quite as easily and their defense being the end of them.

I only care about Alex Smith to the extent that he was part of my original QB rating discussion in my likely to be wrong discussion of where Mahomes' rating will end up in 2018, though I do think his drop off this year does say something about how good KC's offense was last year and that offense is even more talented this year.
 

Concudan

Still Chargin
Staff member
Administrator
I have already acknowledged that I am not likely to be right about Mahomes' rating. When I said that Mahomes would have suck like Eli Manning for the rest of the season to crap himself down to a level where he would not have a higher rating than Smith did last year and admitted that that was not likely, that was a clear indication that I believe that I will end up being being wrong about that. So you can stop dreaming that I am clinging to some notion out of a desire to be right about something. You are clueless if that is what you think.

No, this is much simpler than that. I am trying to help you poor blind people see the truth.

If you were right, I would agree with you. Instead, I will encourage you not to be a sheep and not to just look at numbers or listen to simpletons trying to hype Mahomes.

No, Mahomes did not put his team in positon to win on Monday. He put his team in position to lose with 5 turnovers. He failed spectacularly and miserably in the clutch.

No, hell no, the TD passes on Monday night by Mahomes were not spectacular. That is asinine. Seriously, every starting QB in the league should make those passes and make them easily. It does not say much that he made those passes.

Further, the notion that the Rams somehow have a good defense is not statistically supported--23rd in yards allowed, 21st in points allowed. The Rams are 8th in sacks, but they have played one more game than the entire league except the Chiefs. They are tied with one team and have 5 teams within one sack of them (likely to pass them when they equalize in terms of games played). There was not any meaningful pressure on 5 of the 6 TD passes--simple pitch and catch. There was minor pressure on one of the TD passes.

Also, we will have to agree to disagree if you think KC is running the same offensive scheme in 2018 as they did in 2017. That is nuts. They did not run much RPO last year, did not use a tenth of the disguise and deception that they have used this year and did not use Hill running away from defenders on crossing routes as much as they have this year.

Finally, I do not think KC will make a deep playoff run. I think they will likely be one and done. Their offense is good, but their defense is bad. As good as their offense is, it can be stopped--at least at times and has been by defenses that are not even all that good. In the playoffs, I see the Chiefs not scoring quite as easily and their defense being the end of them.

I only care about Alex Smith to the extent that he was part of my original QB rating discussion in my likely to be wrong discussion of where Mahomes' rating will end up in 2018, though I do think his drop off this year does say something about how good KC's offense was last year and that offense is even more talented this year.
Oh sorry. I must have gotten it all wrong. You love Mahomes. All thes long winded, short sighted, and obtuse posts are all about how you misjudged the kid. Got it...

Man you can shovel the manure!
You are the ONLY idiot trying to claim he is performing at anything other than an MVP level. People who have forgotten more about football than you will ever know agree on this. Yet you obtusely want to say "No I love Mahomes, abut all you blind sheep are wrong he sucks"

When KC does make a deep playoff run, I am sure you will pollute the forum with your tireless pablum about how they didnt. Well thanks for being you, at least we all have a north star to guide our way towards fantasy drafts. If you dislike a player, that is the player to draft. Good on you!
 

captaind

Resist the Dark Side — Join the Alliance
Under the league's current rules, the play was a forward pass because Mahomes' arm was moving forward, but in reality the ball was never passed at all. It was knocked out by the defender. It was not a tipped or batted pass.
And yet it took them all of 15 seconds to overturn the call. Give it up already.
 

Harryo the K

Well-Known Member
Under the league's current rules, the play was a forward pass because Mahomes' arm was moving forward, but in reality the ball was never passed at all. It was knocked out by the defender. It was not a tipped or batted pass.

Mahomes sucked plenty with 5 turnovers as it was.
I think according to these NFL rules, it is within category (a) and was a forward pass,no matter which direction it went, and it was an incompleted pass.

Item 1. Forward Movement of Hand. When a player is in control of the ball and is attempting to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his hand starts a forward pass.


  1. (a) If, after intentional forward movement of his hand, contact by an opponent materially affects the passer, causing the ball to go backward, it is a forward pass, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground, a player, an official, or anything else.

  1. (b) If, after an intentional forward movement of his hand, the passer loses possession of the ball during an attempt to bring it back toward his body, it is a fumble.

  1. (c) If the passer loses possession of the ball while attempting to re-**** his arm, it is a fumble.
 
Well, once again history has proved me right:
I don't know why you idiots keep misrepresenting what I said...I was very clear at the beginning of the season:
I said Mahomes would only tie Brady's epic 2007 season--with Randy Moss--with 50 TDs. Hah! You know I'm the only one right, here!

I also was very clear that Mahomes would only out-perform Smith by "a meaningless 100 yards per game" (318.6 to 218.0).

If these indisputable facts don't prove that I was actually right all along, more right than anyone, then y'all are a bunch of clueless idiots!
 

Harryo the K

Well-Known Member
Well looks like the Chain was correct

Read somewhere Mahomes came in a distant 2nd to our boy Drew Brees

FUDEAN
Yeah Brees has done it 5 times.

I making a Chainny style prediction: The Chiefs do not draft a quarterback unless they do which I can't determine yet due a lack of draft information but to argue with me is so illogical that your reading comprehension is worse than Mahomes reading defenses.
 
Yeah Brees has done it 5 times.

I making a Chainny style prediction: The Chiefs do not draft a quarterback unless they do which I can't determine yet due a lack of draft information but to argue with me is so illogical that your reading comprehension is worse than Mahomes reading defenses.
If anything was crystal clear from the 2018 season it’s the Chiefs are doomed if they don’t draft a QB and start thinking about the future.
 
Alex Smith...career passer rating: 87.3

Alex Smith...2017 passer rating: 104.7 - The number so impressive/important that the lack of Smith's leadership in '18 will surely degrade the Kansas City offense...

Alex Smith...2018 passer rating: 85.7 - Reversion to the (career) mean

Patrick Mahomes...2018 passer rating: 113.8


Mahomes for MVP? Hard to say. Should be very, very tight with Brees: Drew's passer rating and record a hair better, but PM threw for 1,100 more yards, and 18 more TDs!
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ition-mvp-mahomes-is-locked-and-loaded#slide0
 

Top