The Axe Man Cometh! Who Gets Cut?

Faded Blues

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The '06 loss was on him. I knew it was going to be another Marty playoff meltdown when he randomly went for it on 4th and 11 in the first quarter. And outside of that bizarre decision, the entire rest of the gameplan was classic Marty overconservatism. It felt like he ran the ball on every single first down with no attempt to change things up.

The players were also totally sloppy, unfocused and undisciplined. Beyond the McCree fumble, there was also Eric Parker's muffed punt and the moronic unnecessary roughness penalties by Florence and Olivea. That team just wasn't ready to play, and that's on the coaching.

I'm less sure about the '87 Browns, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some of the usual Marty playoff moments in that loss too. Time just makes people forget about the details of playoff losses like these and only remember the most iconic plays.
nah.

Mae outplayed them.

mcree doesn’t fumble game over.
 

FiftyFive

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We outplayed them in the first half, then Belicheat adjusted and Marty didn't. It should have never come down to a fumble in the first place.
 

Gill Man

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Mcree's issue was not the fumble but putting himself in a position to fumble.....he merely needed to fall down and game over. So it was a lack of game awareness. Is that the coach? Is it the player? Probably a little of both but a lot of the front office in not acquiring smart enough players. Same goes for the roughing penalties and Eric Parker. But the coach has to also instill that, during the regular season get on players for those kinds of mistakes so they know not to do it, hold em accountable.

In the final analysis that organization routinely can never get 1) a great HC that is someone of the calibre of a Bellichek or Pete Carroll or other coach who can instill the right mental toughness and focus in players and confidence in the system, and hold players accountable both on and off the field, and motivate like hell 2) acquire a full deck of card (players), there are ALWAYS holes somewhere and mostly along the line of scrimmage 3) acquire players who are smart enough to avoid mistakes in the playoffs, mental toughness. 4) biggest problem: organization at the top does not project an elite calibre management....they just look and act like goofs that are disorganized and clueless. Players see it and respond appropriately.
 

Gill Man

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We outplayed them in the first half, then Belicheat adjusted and Marty didn't. It should have never come down to a fumble in the first place.
They hung around like they always do and waited for the mistake which occured as they'd been patient for. They had all the exerience of the playoffs and when it comes down to crunch time, teams that EXPECT to win usually do. Teams that HOPE to win , usually don't. That was the differene. Bolts played a great game, good enough to win,,,,,they lost because of lack of experience in the playoffs and lack of confidence that their opponent had in abundance. Pats do that to teams every year. This year may be the year they just don't have all the horses to do it again.
 

Kwak

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Marty sucked as a HC. He could teach the game(Xs and Os), but as a game manager he was horrible. In crunch time he always lost it. Bad decisions. Marty always played tight and his teams did too.

Norv had the same game manager issues. He could run an offense, send in the plays, but again was horrible in high pressure situations.
 
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Gill Man

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Marty sucked as a HC. He could teach the game(Xs and Os), but as a game manager he was horrible. In crunch time he always lost it. Bad decisions. Marty always played tight and his teams did too.

Norv had the same game manager issues. He could run an offense, send in the plays, but again was horrible in high pressure situations.
The difference was Marty had teams that were tough in the run game, and he had a good record of regular season wins and making the playoffs, almost on a regular basis. Norb reached the playoffs with top level talent teams but they were teams that often lost game inexplicably in the regular season, resulting in playoff lower seeds when they DID reach. His teams were known for starting the year slowly and having to go on a roll just to reach the playoffs. Marty did not have that motivational issue. But yes, Marty's teams played way too tight in the playoffs, reflecting the attitude of the coach....he was wound too tight. But if I had to hire one or the other to turn a program around and instill some discipline and focus in a floundering organization, Marty would be far better than norb who never held anyone accountable. Jerry Rice hated norb.
 

Kwak

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The difference was Marty had teams that were tough in the run game, and he had a good record of regular season wins and making the playoffs, almost on a regular basis. Norb reached the playoffs with top level talent teams but they were teams that often lost game inexplicably in the regular season, resulting in playoff lower seeds when they DID reach. His teams were known for starting the year slowly and having to go on a roll just to reach the playoffs. Marty did not have that motivational issue. But yes, Marty's teams played way too tight in the playoffs, reflecting the attitude of the coach....he was wound too tight. But if I had to hire one or the other to turn a program around and instill some discipline and focus in a floundering organization, Marty would be far better than norb who never held anyone accountable. Jerry Rice hated norb.
I wouldn't hire either one as a HC. Neither one could take a team all the way.

My sister who is a KC fan, called and gave me her condolences on the day Marty was hired.

The chargers have been fucked since the day Barron Hilton was forced to sell the team. We got Gene Klein, who cared more about horse racing, and it just went down hill from there...
 
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Gill Man

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I wouldn't hire either one as a HC. Neither one could take a team all the way.

My sister who is a KC fan, called and gave me her condolences on the day Marty was hired.

The chargers have been fucked since the day Barron Hilton was forced to sell the team. We got Gene Klein, who cared more about horse racing, and it just went down hill from there...
yup only truly good owner was Hilton. And he had the genius Sid Gillman as HC/GM. I was not thrilled with the Marty hire either, felt he was a retread. That's the way the spanii rolled. Every coach after Ross was horrendous and of those at least Marty got the ship righted pretty quick. I don't think anyone expected a SB though, although the 14-2 team was a real teaser.
 

Gill Man

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Looks like Garrett is going to be shown the door in Dallas... Just saying...
This is all you need to know:
Before hiring Wade Phillips ahead of the 2007 season, the Cowboys cast a wide net in their interview process that included Garrett, Norv Turner, Mike Singletary, Jim Caldwell, Ron Rivera, Todd Bowles, Todd Haley and Tony Sparano.
Jerrah will once again hire a "yes man". They will never win again until Jerrah gets the hell out of the football operation and just hands out the money. Good to see that m-fer struggling to make the playoffs every year then getting punked in round 1.
 
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cocasts

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So is it the OLine, coaches, FUDEAN’s, or Patriot cheating that have held Spaz back?

players get off scot free on this team.,
 

FiftyFive

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So is it the OLine, coaches, FUDEAN’s, or Patriot cheating that have held Spaz back?

players get off scot free on this team.,
If players are "getting off scot free," why are you whining about people criticizing the O-line? "Spaz" hasn't had an NFL-caliber O-line in the past decade.
 

Gill Man

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have no idea what your trying to say, but Joe Gibbs never said an unkind word to anybody.
Joe Gibbs and Bobby Beathard clashed towards the end of Beathard's tenure there.
 

Gill Man

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I think the most successful coach/GM relationships are ones where the coach is given pretty much equal weighting and sometimes allowed more weighting than the GM in personnel decisions. It's the coach's damn team to coach and excute the system and stategies he has in mind so he should be given a huge amount of say in not only WHAT he needs but WHO he needs. The great coaches know personnel as good or better than GM's. So now the Browns are waiting to hire a GM until they get their HC and that is probably smart. I believe in SF they hired Shanahan and then Lynch and the two knew each other well and got along well. There must be a symbiotic relationship without egos getting in the way.....both should realize a champion team is the most important thing rather than WHO gets the credit or responsibility for selecting players. So Jimmy Johnson got the hell out of Dallas after he'd had enough of Jerrah trying to take credit and interfering in personnel decisions. Eff Jerrah....he deserved to send his team into a long drought and it's continuuing lololol.
 

Fender57

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If the ultimate goal in a sport is to win a championship, then you need a great on-field coach to lead the team. The GM is essentially a behind-the-scenes entity who’s function is to provide the players coach needs to implement his plan. It should never be the GM leading the coach, it should be the other way around. The professional level has it backwards, look at college sports. The head coach is the guy in charge - he coordinates and leads everything from recruiting to implementing the game plan to on-field execution - they don’t even have a role called “GM”, the coach fills that role.

In the old days you had Halas, Lombardi, Lambeau, even leading up to Gillman, Stram, Ewbank, Shula, Landry, Noll, Walsh, Knox, even Coryell, these guys were THE guys in charge. I don’t know when it got flipped over, maybe it was Bobby Beathard being labeled a “genius” that flipped it the other way.

The GM should be like the agent to the head coach - negotiate on behalf of the coach’s need.
 

Concudan

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Cowboys to move on without Jason Garrett, source says



Jason Garrett's time with the Dallas Cowboys is coming to an end.

A source told ESPN's Ed Werder that after showing an "abundance of care and respect" for Garrett, team owner/general manager Jerry Jones and executive vice president Stephen Jones have decided the coach will not be part of the organization moving forward.

According to multiple sources, the Joneses and Garrett did not have their scheduled meeting at The Star on Thursday after meeting on Monday and Tuesday without any resolution on the coach's status. Garrett's contract is set to expire Jan. 14 and his status with the team has been uncertain since last February, when the Cowboys opted not to offer him an extension.

The Cowboys missed the playoffs in 2019 and finished 8-8 for the fourth time in Garrett's nine seasons as coach. He will finish as the second-longest-tenured and second-winningest coach in team history to Tom Landry with a record of 85-67, but he won just two playoff games and was unable to get past the divisional round.

Once the parting becomes official, the Cowboys will begin their first full-blown coaching search since Bill Parcells' retirement following the 2006 season. Before hiring Wade Phillips ahead of the 2007 season, the Cowboys cast a wide net in their interview process that included Garrett, Norv Turner, Mike Singletary, Jim Caldwell, Ron Rivera, Todd Bowles, Todd Haley and Tony Sparano.
 

cocasts

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with the same players, Turner and Shotty’s record was pretty similar.

procuring the best talent is more important IMO.

in other words, I would rather have a team loaded with talent with an average coach, then a great coach with inferior talent.

look, this lust for a great coach is overblown. in reality, you need all three....GM (talent finder), coaches, and talented tough players who don’t end up on IR half their career.

FUDEAN has failed on all 3 counts, although Schotty probably had the most loaded team in the history of the franchise. While Norv inherited it....Rivers and LT were injured going into NE. Volek should have played instead of a one legged Spaz. That’s on Turner.
 
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Quetzalcoatl

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Cowboys to move on without Jason Garrett, source says



Jason Garrett's time with the Dallas Cowboys is coming to an end.

A source told ESPN's Ed Werder that after showing an "abundance of care and respect" for Garrett, team owner/general manager Jerry Jones and executive vice president Stephen Jones have decided the coach will not be part of the organization moving forward.

According to multiple sources, the Joneses and Garrett did not have their scheduled meeting at The Star on Thursday after meeting on Monday and Tuesday without any resolution on the coach's status. Garrett's contract is set to expire Jan. 14 and his status with the team has been uncertain since last February, when the Cowboys opted not to offer him an extension.

The Cowboys missed the playoffs in 2019 and finished 8-8 for the fourth time in Garrett's nine seasons as coach. He will finish as the second-longest-tenured and second-winningest coach in team history to Tom Landry with a record of 85-67, but he won just two playoff games and was unable to get past the divisional round.

Once the parting becomes official, the Cowboys will begin their first full-blown coaching search since Bill Parcells' retirement following the 2006 season. Before hiring Wade Phillips ahead of the 2007 season, the Cowboys cast a wide net in their interview process that included Garrett, Norv Turner, Mike Singletary, Jim Caldwell, Ron Rivera, Todd Bowles, Todd Haley and Tony Sparano.
Cowboys coaches are never fired. Their time with the Cowboys just comes to an end.
 

FiftyFive

Dean Spanos is a traitor!
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If the ultimate goal in a sport is to win a championship, then you need a great on-field coach to lead the team. The GM is essentially a behind-the-scenes entity who’s function is to provide the players coach needs to implement his plan. It should never be the GM leading the coach, it should be the other way around. The professional level has it backwards, look at college sports. The head coach is the guy in charge - he coordinates and leads everything from recruiting to implementing the game plan to on-field execution - they don’t even have a role called “GM”, the coach fills that role.

In the old days you had Halas, Lombardi, Lambeau, even leading up to Gillman, Stram, Ewbank, Shula, Landry, Noll, Walsh, Knox, even Coryell, these guys were THE guys in charge. I don’t know when it got flipped over, maybe it was Bobby Beathard being labeled a “genius” that flipped it the other way.

The GM should be like the agent to the head coach - negotiate on behalf of the coach’s need.
I'd say it depends on the sport. In basketball, giving the coach more power than the GM (or, even worse, having the coach also be the GM) never works.
 

Fender57

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I'd say it depends on the sport. In basketball, giving the coach more power than the GM (or, even worse, having the coach also be the GM) never works.
Depends on the coach. Failed miserably with Rick Pitino in Boston, but Pat Riley is a guy who can do it. I think basketball and baseball would need a strong GM (baseball especially because the GM has to manage all the farm teams from rookie ball to the majors) but in football there is no reason to give any GM the top authority.
 

Gill Man

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with the same players, Turner and Shotty’s record was pretty similar.

procuring the best talent is more important IMO.

in other words, I would rather have a team loaded with talent with an average coach, then a great coach with inferior talent.

look, this lust for a great coach is overblown. in reality, you need all three....GM (talent finder), coaches, and talented tough players who don’t end up on IR half their career.

FUDEAN has failed on all 3 counts, although Schotty probably had the most loaded team in the history of the franchise. While Norv inherited it....Rivers and LT were injured going into NE. Volek should have played instead of a one legged Spaz. That’s on Turner.
yeah since IIRC Volek was the QB that got us to the next game by winning in Indy. But also was it not the Indy game that L.A.T. injured his vagina??? That was probably much more damaging than Rivers playing hurt. PLUS the crappy D under that idiot Cottrell did ZIP to stop NE from running down the stretch leaving us no chance to get back in late in the game. Turner and Cottrell......against Bellichek and Patricia LOLOLOLOL. YGBSM.
 
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