Raiders thread

  • Welcome to America's Finest Sports Forum and Podcast!

    afsportsforum.com is one of the largest online communities covering San Diego sports. We host a regular podcast during the major seasons. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Harryo the K

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2017
4,888
783
300
69
Raiders up 10-0. Lose 28-10. SDRay, your Charger days should tell you this nothing to get excited about.
 

Fender57

BoltTalker
Sep 7, 2008
4,300
951
320
All part of the process Harry. This team is young and still building chemistry. Even in a loss, I liked the no quit defensively as they shout of KC in the 2nd half.
I agree. They already look 100% better than last year. Tyrell was a great addition to the squad.
 

SDRay

#GoIrish #Aztecs #SDGulls #Raiders #THFC #RipCity
Staff member
Administrator
Podcaster
Jun 20, 2005
13,518
1,897
350
46
Chula Vista, CA
www.afsportsforum.com
Unleashing Josh Jacobs: Raiders need to get the rookie running back more involved in the passing game


Josh Jacobs, despite a quiet game on Sunday, is one of the biggest reasons for optimism in the Raiders offense. The rookie running back from Alabama has shown power, vision, speed and everything you’d want from a first-round pick. Along with tight end Darren Waller, he’s a definite building block.


The Vikings limited Jacobs to 44 yards on 10 carries in the Raiders’ 34-14 loss, though that 4.4 yards per carry is still respectable. Through three weeks (not including Monday night’s game between Chicago and Washington), Jacobs is eighth in the NFL and leads all rookies with 258 rushing yards.


The surprise is that he’s still only caught one pass, a 28-yard reception in the season-opening win over the Broncos. I asked Gruden at his Monday news conference if that’s something that needs to change.


“Yeah, we’re trying,” Gruden said. “We definitely do want to get Josh to be a big part of the passing game, no doubt. We certainly do. We’d like to get more out of Jalen Richard, as well. All of our backs. We take a lot of pride in using our backs in the passing game.


“You are right, though, 100 percent. We’ve got to get more out of Josh as a receiver.”


Part of what made Jacobs an exciting option for the Raiders at the No. 24 pick — and immediately had him as a hot name in fantasy football — was his receiving ability. He caught 48 passes for 571 yards and five touchdowns in his three seasons at Alabama, a total more impressive when you consider he only shared time in the backfield.


The reports on him entering the draft certainly highlighted that part of his game, with The Athletic’s Dane Brugler writing in his pre-draft assessment that Jacobs possessed, “hand-eye coordination and ball skills to make easy adjustments as a pass catcher … was more than just a screen target in college, doing damage on seam and angle routes.”


And that’s what Jacobs showed in the season opener the one time the Raiders targeted him in the passing game.


Since then, he’s seen no targets in the 28-10 loss in Week 2 to the Chiefs in which he dealt with a groin injury and some dehydration, and had no catches on two targets Sunday. The first pass attempt didn’t come his way Sunday until the Raiders were already trailing 28-3 midway through the third quarter and was a ball that Derek Carr sailed high over his hands.


The second pass attempt again came with the game well in hand, 31-7 in the fourth quarter, and Jacobs was charged with a drop that left him shaking his head.


That’s it. Those are the three pass attempts that have gone to Jacobs through three games. And after that 24-touch debut in the win over Denver, and after Gruden declared he’d like to get Jacobs another 24 touches the next week, Jacobs has gotten only 22 touches in the next two games combined.


He’s been out there for his share of pass plays, too. Of his 95 offensive snaps this season, 46 have been passing plays. In the past two weeks, the Raiders have thrown the ball on 56.4 percent of his snaps.


So far, though, the Raiders have been more interested in targeting Richard. He’s coming off a fine season catching the ball, with 68 receptions for 607 yards, but none of those last year went for touchdowns. And through three games this season, he’s been targeted six times and his five catches have netted just 16 yards — or 12 fewer than Jacobs’ one catch.


Gruden also indicated it wasn’t necessarily Jacobs’ groin or illness that kept him to a season-low 25 snaps (Richard had 29 snaps) on Sunday.


“I think he’ll tell you he was probably healthy,” Gruden said. “He got nicked up a little bit in the Chief game. He had the illness. We had a little package of plays for DeAndré (Washington) and Jalen and we got behind and unfortunately weren’t able to really stay with it much longer than we did. But he’s going to be a heck of a player for us. We’ve got to get him going in the passing game, we’ve got to get him the ball more.”



The Raiders are on the hunt for linebackers with three of their five on the roster dealing with injuries. Gruden was waiting on results of some tests on Monday to know more about the severity, but acknowledged he was concerned after Vontaze Burfict (elbow), Marquel Lee (ankle) and Nicholas Morrow (ankle) all had to leave Sunday’s game.


“You get worried when you have three of your linebackers come out of the game,” Gruden said. “I’m a little concerned to say the least. Mike Mayock, his staff are working hard to come up with a contingency plan if we need to find a linebacker.”


The only two healthy players currently are Tahir Whitehead and Kyle Wilber, with Wilber primarily a special teams player (although he did play 19 defensive snaps Sunday). They have rookie Justin Phillips on the practice squad as well, but Gruden said they’ll be taking a look around the league to see who is available.


One familiar name who seems to be open to taking a phone call is Brandon Marshall, whom the Raiders released on cutdown day.


What’s good! https://t.co/mdw1ZkihLd
— Brandon Marshall (@BMarshh) September 23, 2019

Trent Brown, who battled a sore knee while sitting out most of the week of practice last week, now is dealing with an ankle injury. He played 50 of the 59 snaps against Minnesota.


“We’ll see the exactness of this injury here in the next couple of hours,” Gruden said. “Obviously, he’s a big part of this team. We need him, but we don’t want to put anybody at danger.”


The Raiders saw what happened last year when Kolton Miller played the bulk of the season with a knee injury. With Brown dealing with two different leg ailments, the Raiders might be better off getting him some rest and having him healthier the rest of the way.


In better injury news on the offensive line, right guard Gabe Jackson is “continuing to make huge strides,” but Gruden doesn’t expect him to return to practice this week. Next week when the team heads to London could be a realistic goal, though.


“Perhaps next week prior to the Bears game, he can start practicing,” Gruden said. “But he’s getting very close. I credit Jordan Devey. He started at left guard (the first two games), he goes into right guard. We’re anxious to get Gabe back as our right guard. (Richie) Incognito had some good moments yesterday for his first appearance in over a year. But when we can get our guards back and be at full strength up front, hopefully Trent’s ready to go, we really like our line.”



The leash on Ryan Grant wasn’t very long. After starting the first game at receiver alongside Tyrell Williams and then again playing over 70 percent of the offensive snaps in Week 2, Grant was inactive Sunday. He had a brutal outing against the Chiefs, catching one pass for minus-2 yards and getting called for three penalties.


Gruden attributed his absence to a desire to have an extra offensive lineman available, although his issues against the Chiefs have to have played a roll.


“We’re having a hard time assembling our gameday actives, honestly,” Gruden said. “We went with the extra offensive lineman yesterday just because it was Incognito’s first game playing in a long time. We knew Trent Brown hadn’t practiced much, so we felt we needed to have eight offensive linemen against a formidable front like the Vikings.


“So, we can’t have five receivers or X-amount of players at certain positions if you go heavy on the offensive line, so that was the reason he was scratched, and this week we are going to make it competitive. We’re going to let Trevor Davis have an opportunity to get on the grass. We didn’t bring him in here to watch. J.J (Nelson) did a couple good things as the Z, but obviously that’s been a position that’s not really solved yet and unfortunately, it’s a big part of our offense, the flanker position.”


One name not mentioned there: Keelan Doss. The Alameda native was active for the second straight week but only saw two snaps and was not targeted. Since Doss doesn’t play on special teams, it begs the question of why he is active if he’s not going to get a shot on the field.


“We used a lot of double tight end sets yesterday and we used three tight ends at a time for good reason,” Gruden said in explaining Doss’ lack of playing time. “We got a great group of tight ends that are playing better than just about any unit on our offense. They’re playing outstanding football, and I know Doss is a topic that comes up a lot. He’s a rookie. He’s right now playing three different positions and he is backing up all three, and when the time is right, you’ll see him. But right now, he’s got to keep competing, keep getting better like all young players.”
 

Lance19

BoltTalker
Oct 2, 2011
6,485
993
340
Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
I still can't figure out who Derek Carr is.
He looked so efficient in '16...in just his 3rd season...he seemed like he had a glorious future in front of him.

Since...well, he's been just good enough to prevent serious talk about losing his job...
but he just can't seem to take the next step. Too good to jettison...not good enough to take that team anywhere...
 

SDRay

#GoIrish #Aztecs #SDGulls #Raiders #THFC #RipCity
Staff member
Administrator
Podcaster
Jun 20, 2005
13,518
1,897
350
46
Chula Vista, CA
www.afsportsforum.com
Vontaze Burfict was the 'no-brainer' that backfired on Raiders


ALAMEDA, Calif. -- Surely, the Oakland Raiders had to know this was a possibility when they signed Vontaze Burfict to play middle linebacker, right?
Right. Kinda. Doesn't mean they have to agree with it.
"He's marked, in part, because of his reputation," Raiders defensive coordinator Paul Guenther told ESPN.com this spring.
And it is a well-earned reputation, so to speak. One that, due to repeated violations of unnecessary roughness rules, has landed Burfict a season-long suspension and cost the Raiders the quarterback of their defense with his helmet-to-helmet hit on tight end Jack Doyle on Sunday in the Raiders' 31-24 victory at the Indianapolis Colts.
play
0:25
Vontaze Burfict is ejected from the game vs. the Colts due to a helmet-to-helmet hit on Jack Doyle.
Burfict, who was named one of five team captains by players, was rightly flagged for unnecessary roughness. But then the game's observer in New York weighed in and decided Burfict should be kicked out of the game. Burfict is now looking at serving the longest suspension for an on-field transgression in league history.
It's in no small part because of his history. Consider: Burfict has led the NFL with 23 personal fouls since entering the NFL in 2012, including the playoffs.
His 15 flags for unnecessary roughness since 2012 also lead the league.
And he has been fined $469,119 for on-field violations in his career, the most of any player since 2013, and that does not include the approximate $3.7 million he has forfeited in game checks due to suspensions for on-field violations.
So yeah, Burfict's reputation preceded him, even if coach Jon Gruden seethed after the game about Burfict being ejected. The Raiders are in London now -- they departed for England from Indianapolis for Sunday's game against the Chicago Bears -- and will not have any access until Wednesday.
"Nobody on the field, in our stadium, or in this zip code, made the call to eject him," Gruden said after the game. "That came from New York City. So, what can I do? I don't have a cellphone on the field.
"It's a tough decision, it's a tough call. I think it was a flag. It was very-well-documented that the league was going to review those plays this year in New York City. So, that's what happened and I'll wait to hear what their reasoning was. But it was a penalty, he went in there with his head down, it was called and, unfortunately for us, it was an ejection."
Linebacker Tahir Whitehead assumed the role of defensive playcaller following Burfict's departure, the second game in a row he had to wear the "green-dot" communications helmet. Burfict suffered an elbow injury in Minnesota a week earlier and left the game.
Whitehead, also a team captain, was none too pleased with the prospect of losing Burfict for the season, taking to Twitter Monday to post: "This is straight bulls---. No way that hit calls for that. This s--- is getting out of hand."
But again, the suspension is not about that one hit; rather, it was the proverbial straw as the league saw it.
And, right or wrong, the Raiders will pay for Burfict's reputation and, well, the hit laid upon Doyle, who ironically saw little wrong with it.
"I just got tackled," he said after the game. "I'm sure it looked worse than it was. I didn't really feel anything from it. My helmet protected me."
Burfict has three business days to appeal the suspension, which would then be heard by either Derrick Brooks or James Thrash, both of whom were jointly appointed by the NFL and NFLPA.
Burfict was brought to Oakland because of his intimate knowledge of Guenther's system, Guenther having been his position coach and coordinator in Cincinnati from 2012 through 2017.
"To take a leap of faith on him was a no-brainer," Guenther said. "He's coming to resurrect his career. He's coming into a defense he knows, but a new place, a fresh beginning.
"This is a guy that had a rough upbringing. We bonded. I saw a really good player in there somewhere. I had to get it out ... there was a trust factor."
Among Burfict's most infamous hits is the head shot he put on former Raiders teammate Antonio Brown in a 2016 playoff game between the Cincinnati Bengals and Pittsburgh Steelers.
"We can't have that," Guenther said. "But I'm not looking for nice linebackers, either."
The Raiders are now looking for another linebacker. This was the risk the Raiders took by not only signing a player with such a reputation, but by not investing enough depth in the position.
The only other linebacker on the roster with real middle linebacker experience, Marquel Lee, just went on injured reserve. The rest of the linebacker corps -- Whitehead, Nicholas Morrow, Kyle Wilber, Justin Phillips, who was just promoted from the practice squad, and Dakota Allen, who was just signed off the Los Angeles Rams' practice squad -- are mostly outside linebackers.
The Raiders could move Whitehead inside and sign outside linebacker Brandon Marshall, who is a free agent. Marshall already knows this defense after spending the offseason and training camp with the team. He expressed interest in joining the Raiders last week before they signed Allen.
However you slice it, though, Burfict has put the Raiders in a bind.
"I'm not a dirty player," Burfict said upon signing with Oakland. "I can't go in there playing patty-cake. If I go out there playing patty-cake, then I'm going to be getting run over. I have 300-pound linemen, 300-plus-pound linemen coming at me, trying to block me. If I play soft, then I'm not doing my job.
"Every team plays a little bit after the whistle. It's just a matter of if the ref catches it, you know what I mean?"
Consider Burfict caught, then, fairly or unfairly.
 

Lancer 1

Betrayed Bolt Supporter
Jul 10, 2006
1,766
254
230
54
Burfict is a habitual offender, but his reputation for "prior bad acts" may be why he was ejected and the Patriots' player that concussed Josh Allen wasn't, for a very similar headshot.
 

Harryo the K

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2017
4,888
783
300
69
Suspending players for hard hits? What in name of John Matuszak is that doing in a Raider thread?
And the game of football is now a corporate video game.
Raider Nation? More like Raider tourist sleepy fishing village.

They came to play, nice ending.

 

Fender57

BoltTalker
Sep 7, 2008
4,300
951
320
Bunch of bullshit. These guys willingly play this game for millions, they know it’s a game made up of pain. if I’m Burfect I’d think about suing the league.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Harryo the K

Lancer 1

Betrayed Bolt Supporter
Jul 10, 2006
1,766
254
230
54
Bunch of bullshit. These guys willingly play this game for millions, they know it’s a game made up of pain. if I’m Burfect I’d think about suing the league.
He’d lose on this one, with all the concussion drama the league has faced, to include lawsuits & suicides of high profile former players, not to mention the publicity given to the lowered quality of life guys like Steve Hendrickson are experiencing over numerous concussions sustained, it’s been established policy for years now that you cannot specifically target an opposing players’ head, especially with your own helmet.
 

Harryo the K

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2017
4,888
783
300
69
He’d lose on this one, with all the concussion drama the league has faced, to include lawsuits & suicides of high profile former players, not to mention the publicity given to the lowered quality of life guys like Steve Hendrickson are experiencing over numerous concussions sustained, it’s been established policy for years now that you cannot specifically target an opposing players’ head, especially with your own helmet.
Exactly, it's a legal, corporate decision. We get sued, it costs us more money.
The fact that it's a collision sport has no bearing. We, aka owners, like to call this Our Game. And we don't like Our Game costing us Our Money. No owner has ever been suspending for mistreating a player. That's a player-player problem. Oh...your PSL payment is due by the 10th of October. Would hate for you to have to miss the playoffs (we haven't decided on the teams yet, but we're close).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Fender57

Concudan

Still Chargin
Staff member
Administrator
Mar 5, 2006
56,322
3,757
350
Bunch of bullshit. These guys willingly play this game for millions, they know it’s a game made up of pain. if I’m Burfect I’d think about suing the league.
He would lose. He is a multiple repeat offender. He has been warned, and sanctioned by the league multiple times for this.
 

Fender57

BoltTalker
Sep 7, 2008
4,300
951
320
He would lose. He is a multiple repeat offender. He has been warned, and sanctioned by the league multiple times for this.
Yes, but head on head collisions is not necessarily a Vontaze Burfict issue - the NFL (and football in general) have coached and conditioned players for decades to spear when tackling. Now they put it on the player “hey, don’t spear” when it’s all they may know. I get there’s a safety issue but what has the league done to truly fix it other than fine players?

How about going back to leather helmets?
 

Concudan

Still Chargin
Staff member
Administrator
Mar 5, 2006
56,322
3,757
350
Yes, but head on head collisions is not necessarily a Vontaze Burfict issue - the NFL (and football in general) have coached and conditioned players for decades to spear when tackling. Now they put it on the player “hey, don’t spear” when it’s all they may know. I get there’s a safety issue but what has the league done to truly fix it other than fine players?

How about going back to leather helmets?
Sorry, that is just silly. The NFL has put huge efforts into removing the spear from the game. It has been a focus for over 5 years. He came in, lowered his head and used the crown of the helmet to initiate contact. If it is a first or second offense, ok. It is not.

How about instead of making silly excuses of why these players can't learn to play safer, we expect more of them?
 

Fender57

BoltTalker
Sep 7, 2008
4,300
951
320
Sorry, that is just silly. The NFL has put huge efforts into removing the spear from the game. It has been a focus for over 5 years. He came in, lowered his head and used the crown of the helmet to initiate contact. If it is a first or second offense, ok. It is not.

How about instead of making silly excuses of why these players can't learn to play safer, we expect more of them?
I don’t think it’s a silly notion to take into account a lifetime of training for one’s craft in a violently physical occupation like football. I will concede that my idea will be virtually impossible to implement but the NFL is not blameless and I think their attempts to fix this issue is mostly lip service and band aids to basically proactively fight lawsuits (it’s all about their money). Because if they truly cared they’d do more for the warriors who played in eras past.
 

Concudan

Still Chargin
Staff member
Administrator
Mar 5, 2006
56,322
3,757
350
I don’t think it’s a silly notion to take into account a lifetime of training for one’s craft in a violently physical occupation like football. I will concede that my idea will be virtually impossible to implement but the NFL is not blameless and I think their attempts to fix this issue is mostly lip service and band aids to basically proactively fight lawsuits (it’s all about their money). Because if they truly cared they’d do more for the warriors who played in eras past.
So your answer is to let one person violate the rules all others play by, because the NFL doesnt care? They dont care so much that they are making changes, including the one you are saying they dont do enough to implement?

So what is your answer? Tell Burfect to continue until someone is crippled, most likely himself?

I respect your takes but I cant agree with you on this one, sorry.
 

wrbanwal

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2005
10,949
1,285
350
Sorry, that is just silly. The NFL has put huge efforts into removing the spear from the game. It has been a focus for over 5 years. He came in, lowered his head and used the crown of the helmet to initiate contact. If it is a first or second offense, ok. It is not.

How about instead of making silly excuses of why these players can't learn to play safer, we expect more of them?
for once, I gotta go with the Conc on this on :)
 

Harryo the K

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2017
4,888
783
300
69
Here's a silly idea....quit calling it a safety issue but a legal cost issue.
Player gets tackled, tears his ACL, that's okay, because we haven't been sued for joints.
Player safety is what we say is player safety.
.