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Julian Edelman Super Doping MVP?

#31
Your post is crap.

Lloyd Bentsen once famously said, "If you let me write $200 billion of hot checks every year, I could give you an illusion of prosperity, too."

The Patriots were essentially given mulligans on three separate first half drives on which they were stopped. 35-7 at the half was that illusion of prosperity. They cashed an extra 18 points and a bunch of lopsided statistics that they did not rightfully earn with their "hot checks" in that first half.

And the reality is that while the Chargers surrendered some yardage on a couple of drives in the second half, they did in the second half what they had been doing all season long--bending, but not breaking in giving up just two second half FGs.

They were able to achieve better results for 4 primary reasons--the refs did not negate 3 of their stops with bad calls as they did in the first half; they maintained better gap integrity in their defensive assignments against the run; they had better communication in the secondary; and they blitzed a bit more.

The Patriots could not have "hung 77 on them". They were mixing passes and runs with passes taking place into the second half of the 4th quarter and they could only score 6 points against the Chargers in the second half. Your suggestion that the Patriots took their foot off of the gas pedal represents a complete failure to understand how the Patriots play.

Also, every playoff opponent the Patriots played had better offensive success in the second half than in the first half. That suggests that the Patriots had good game plans, but their opponents made adjustments.

Against the Chargers, the Patriots never played a prevent defense. Their plan was to force Rivers to beat them in the cold with deeper throws against pressure. With the bad referee calls in the first half, the Chargers did not have a chance to establish an offensive rhythm because the Patriots were allowed to possess the ball after the Patriots had been stopped on three separate drives. In the second half, without that impediment and with better defensive play, they were able to build some offensive rhythm, scoring 21 points.

In the second half, sometimes the Patriots won with their pressure and forcing Rivers to hold the ball by covering short, but sometimes the Charger offense won with bigger passing plays, completing 7 passes of 14+ yards in the second half. The approach by the Patriots was basically the polar opposite of what you are suggesting. It more closely resembled what the Ravens did against the Chargers--force the Chargers to beat them against pressure.
Like I said, just because you repeat something over and over doesn’t make it true. The Patriots scored at will because they game planned better and just played better. Because they were better. Period.
 
#32
Like I said, just because you repeat something over and over doesn’t make it true. The Patriots scored at will because they game planned better and just played better. Because they were better. Period.
I believe your view oversimplifies what actually happened. You can choose to ignore that multiple first half Patriot drives were resurrected by referee decisions. The Patriots were stopped on 4 of 6 first half drives. That is a fact. The refs made decisions that allowed three of those stopped drives to resume, one about 40 yards further up the field. Again, that is a fact. So, they did not score at will. That, again, is a fact.

The Patriots did score many times in the first half with a huge assist from the refs (3 TDs).

Without the help the refs gave them, the Patriot offense was entirely ordinary in the second half. In the half that was not as tainted with bad calls, the Chargers won 21-6.
 

Gill Man

Inaugural San Diego Charger Fan Since 1962 FUDEAN
Staff member
Moderator
#33
Like I said, just because you repeat something over and over doesn’t make it true. The Patriots scored at will because they game planned better and just played better. Because they were better. Period.
In the trenches that entire game it was the Patriots on both sides of the ball that controlled things. That and the strategy, they picked apart the weakness of the chargers D perfectly, they protected Brady all game long, it was surgical. You give Bellichek and Flores and McDaniels time to prepare for a team, that is usually the end result, the other team gets outcoached. Not always but usually. There were many observers, players and coaches and analysts who could not believe Gus Bradley strategized the way he did against Brady. It was like General Custer. Stupid. Not sure how that guy gets the rep he has........he failed his team and players when it counted the most. I think his stint at SEA was so successful largely because of Pete Carroll. He failed as a HC, and now looks like he's not all that as a DC for a different HC and an organization that certainly has never come close to what SEA has accomplished. I would not count on a Lombardi with that coaching staff after that dismal performance in such a critical game.
 
#34
I believe your view oversimplifies what actually happened. You can choose to ignore that multiple first half Patriot drives were resurrected by referee decisions. The Patriots were stopped on 4 of 6 first half drives. That is a fact. The refs made decisions that allowed three of those stopped drives to resume, one about 40 yards further up the field. Again, that is a fact. So, they did not score at will. That, again, is a fact.

The Patriots did score many times in the first half with a huge assist from the refs (3 TDs).

Without the help the refs gave them, the Patriot offense was entirely ordinary in the second half. In the half that was not as tainted with bad calls, the Chargers won 21-6.
Really, the bottom line of always blaming the refs is just blatant excuses. Clearly the game showed how dominant New England was that day. Just because you repeat the “but the refs!...” mantra over and over does not make it true.
 

Gill Man

Inaugural San Diego Charger Fan Since 1962 FUDEAN
Staff member
Moderator
#35
Really, the bottom line of always blaming the refs is just blatant excuses. Clearly the game showed how dominant New England was that day. Just because you repeat the “but the refs!...” mantra over and over does not make it true.
Outcoached. See my post above where I contrasted what Gud Bradley did at SEA vs what he did as a HC in JAX and now as a DC under Lynn. If you'll recall, when Pete Carroll came out of USC and was hired by SEA, aj butthead smith was the GM. Norb was and always will be a joke. So aj smith stuck with that ridiculous guy as a HC when he SHOULD have fired him and worked out a deal with Pete Carroll to coach in San Diego. But NOOOOO. Am sure Spanos was all too happy to oblige aj smith's need for a yes man, saving dollars on a contract he'd already inked with the incompetent norval. IF they'd signed Pete Carroll, let him run the show, having maximum input on drafting and personnel acquisition, they'd likely have had a Lombardi by now, and quite possibly the city would have been behind that team and voted for something that spanos could live with and the city could live with. JMHO.
 
#36
Outcoached. See my post above where I contrasted what Gud Bradley did at SEA vs what he did as a HC in JAX and now as a DC under Lynn. If you'll recall, when Pete Carroll came out of USC and was hired by SEA, aj butthead smith was the GM. Norb was and always will be a joke. So aj smith stuck with that ridiculous guy as a HC when he SHOULD have fired him and worked out a deal with Pete Carroll to coach in San Diego. But NOOOOO. Am sure Spanos was all too happy to oblige aj smith's need for a yes man, saving dollars on a contract he'd already inked with the incompetent norval. IF they'd signed Pete Carroll, let him run the show, having maximum input on drafting and personnel acquisition, they'd likely have had a Lombardi by now, and quite possibly the city would have been behind that team and voted for something that spanos could live with and the city could live with. JMHO.
Spanos, with his BULLSHYTE separation of duties policy, would never let one guy be coach/GM. He has no precedent or reason to stick to this policy, only in his own stubborn mind he sticks to it. Additionally, hiring Carroll would have meant firing AJ, which as it turned out would’ve been just fine. Loser organization makes loser decisions. The results permeate to the field. Which is why New England utterly demolished the LA Spanoses.
 

TTK

EX-Charger Fan
#37
The Chumps, er uh, Chiefs, BWAHAHAHA!!! LMAO! They were gifted with the easiest of routes to the Super Bowl--a game against an overrated cupcake Colts team and getting to face the meek Henry Jekyll 3-5 road version of the Patriots instead of the Mr. Hyde 8-0 home version that the Chargers got to play with 7 additional Patriots being allowed on the field at all times in striped uniforms.

As expected, the bad road version of the Patriots tried to give the game away with a -2 turnover differential against a bad KC defense, but Mahomes again came up small just as he had done against the Chargers at home a few weeks earlier again with a +2 turnover bump in his favor, failing even to muster 300 yards of total offense in either game.

But no, it couldn't be that good teams adjusted after seeing Reid's new system once. After all, that would require giving credit to Reid for his system. And it couldn't be that the Chumps were missing Hunt because that would require giving credit to players other than Kermit. Who knows? Maybe Kermit is just regressing.

Play that Tomahawk Chop. Oh, oh, oh-oh-oh, the Chumps and Kermit S-U-U-UCK, S-U-U-UCK!!!

Finally, regarding Kermit and the Chumps, Kermit did not "win" the MVP, but it was given to him. It is not the first time nor will it be the least that that now diminished award will be given to the wrong person. To borrow from Dan Rather, Brees should be madder than a rained on rooster for getting screwed twice at the end of this season.

As for the Chargers, they got completely screwed by the refs against the Steelers and the Chiefs and won anyway. They got a meaningless call against the Browns in 38-14 blowout that was only that close because the Chargers, unlike the Patriots, do have a bad habit of playing a prevent defense late in blowout games and surrendering garbage time points that make games look closer than they really are.

And their game winning TD against the Broncos came on a third quarter drive on which there were no penalties. On their final TD drive the Chargers overcame a holding penalty and a tripping penalty called against them. They declined a defensive PI call and took the reception that occurred on the play. The Broncos committed PI, but Allen caught the ball anyway. The final score was 23-9, a leaning to the top of the range two score win.
Good stuff, Fabs.
 

TTK

EX-Charger Fan
#38
By the way, had Dee Ford lined up 6 inches backwards on the INT play, Mahomes would have been playing last Sunday.

And the Chiefs got shafted on a couple of calls that game, but they still should have won the game. No blaming the refs there.
 

Gill Man

Inaugural San Diego Charger Fan Since 1962 FUDEAN
Staff member
Moderator
#39
Spanos, with his BULLSHYTE separation of duties policy, would never let one guy be coach/GM. He has no precedent or reason to stick to this policy, only in his own stubborn mind he sticks to it. Additionally, hiring Carroll would have meant firing AJ, which as it turned out would’ve been just fine. Loser organization makes loser decisions. The results permeate to the field. Which is why New England utterly demolished the LA Spanoses.
yup, exactly.
 
#40
Really, the bottom line of always blaming the refs is just blatant excuses. Clearly the game showed how dominant New England was that day. Just because you repeat the “but the refs!...” mantra over and over does not make it true.
Just because you keep repeating that the Patriots were dominant that day does not make it true. It is an indisputable fact that the Chargers actually stopped the Patriots on 4 of their 6 first half drives. The Patriots ran a play that either resulted in time running out or in a failed third down conversion. That is called a defensive stop.

Whether you think the referee calls were correct or not, you do not get to dispute that referee calls negated stops by the Chargers on three separate Patriot drives. That also is an indisputable fact.

Now if you want to dispute the correctness of the referee calls, that is something you can try to argue. You would be wrong, but that is at least something that you can argue.

And to be perfectly fair and clear, I think the Patriots did a great job of taking advantage of their unfair extra opportunties for possession of the ball and the Chargers did a poor job of defending against those unfair mulligans.

My point is that the game would have been different, a lot different, if the right referee calls had been made.
 
#41
By the way, had Dee Ford lined up 6 inches backwards on the INT play, Mahomes would have been playing last Sunday.

And the Chiefs got shafted on a couple of calls that game, but they still should have won the game. No blaming the refs there.
If Philip Rivers had fallen down for a sack and not thrown an incomplete pass on the team's final drive at home against the Broncos, the Chargers would have won the Super Bowl last Sunday.

If the Patriots played like they did against the Chiefs against the Chargers at the StubHub Center and donated a +2 turnover edge for trhe Chargers, the Chargers would have beaten them pretty easily.
 

TTK

EX-Charger Fan
#43
If Philip Rivers had fallen down for a sack and not thrown an incomplete pass on the team's final drive at home against the Broncos, the Chargers would have won the Super Bowl last Sunday.

If the Patriots played like they did against the Chiefs against the Chargers at the StubHub Center and donated a +2 turnover edge for trhe Chargers, the Chargers would have beaten them pretty easily.
Well, the GOAT would have never pulled what Rivers did on that play.

That's the difference between a 6 time Super Bowl champion and a guy who has never made it to the big game. In your mind you may think that the game was a close, competitive one but the reality is that there is a chasm the size of the Grand Canyon that separates those two organizations.
 
#44
Just because you keep repeating that the Patriots were dominant that day does not make it true. It is an indisputable fact that the Chargers actually stopped the Patriots on 4 of their 6 first half drives. The Patriots ran a play that either resulted in time running out or in a failed third down conversion. That is called a defensive stop.

Whether you think the referee calls were correct or not, you do not get to dispute that referee calls negated stops by the Chargers on three separate Patriot drives. That also is an indisputable fact.

Now if you want to dispute the correctness of the referee calls, that is something you can try to argue. You would be wrong, but that is at least something that you can argue.

And to be perfectly fair and clear, I think the Patriots did a great job of taking advantage of their unfair extra opportunties for possession of the ball and the Chargers did a poor job of defending against those unfair mulligans.

My point is that the game would have been different, a lot different, if the right referee calls had been made.
It’s a loser mentality to continually blame the referees. That said, anybody with eyes and brains could plainly see the Patriots smoked the Chargers. Even the players and the fans on this board know this to be true.

Just because you keep repeating your mantra does not make it true.
 
#45
It’s a loser mentality to continually blame the referees. That said, anybody with eyes and brains could plainly see the Patriots smoked the Chargers. Even the players and the fans on this board know this to be true.

Just because you keep repeating your mantra does not make it true.
Anybody with eyes and a brain can see that the Patriots were stopped on 4 of 6 first half drives and were only able to score three of their first half TDs because calls by referees functionally extended Patriot possessions. That is not some sort of mantra. It is an indisputable fact. My saying it is true does not make it true. It is already true.

It is simple, take away the calls and the Patriots do not get 3 of their 5 first half TDs.

However, if a team is given mulligan after mulligan, they are much more likely to score more points. It also helps a team prevent the other team from scoring because the extra possession takes time and opportunity to score away from the other team.

That said, nobody smoked anyone on that day. The score even with the refs heavily favoring the Patriots was 41-28, which is hardly one team smoking another.
 
#46
Well, the GOAT would have never pulled what Rivers did on that play.

That's the difference between a 6 time Super Bowl champion and a guy who has never made it to the big game. In your mind you may think that the game was a close, competitive one but the reality is that there is a chasm the size of the Grand Canyon that separates those two organizations.
The primary difference between the two teams is that the Chargers are the more talented, better team.

Unfortunately, the Patriots were rested, had home field advantage, and hugely benefitted from some bad referee calls in the game.

My view is that without the bad calls, the Chargers would have been trailing at the half more so because they played poorly than the Patriots played well. The score probably would have been about a 10 point margin in favor of the Patriots, the kind of margin the Chargers had overcome on the road against teams regarded as good all season long.

My belief is that the Chargers would have won had they been down by only 10 as they made adjustments, played better and had the better of things in the second half.

With even rest and on a neutral field, the Chargers are the better team. But things can happen that prevent the better team from winning. That's why they play the games.

Also, teams win Super Bowls, not players. Players may be members of Super Bowl winning teams. Rivers outplayed Brady all season long in 2018. Brady has made plenty of mistakes over his career and he is presently in gentle decline as a player.
 

TTK

EX-Charger Fan
#47
The primary difference between the two teams is that the Chargers are the more talented, better team.

Unfortunately, the Patriots were rested, had home field advantage, and hugely benefitted from some bad referee calls in the game.

My view is that without the bad calls, the Chargers would have been trailing at the half more so because they played poorly than the Patriots played well. The score probably would have been about a 10 point margin in favor of the Patriots, the kind of margin the Chargers had overcome on the road against teams regarded as good all season long.

My belief is that the Chargers would have won had they been down by only 10 as they made adjustments, played better and had the better of things in the second half.

With even rest and on a neutral field, the Chargers are the better team. But things can happen that prevent the better team from winning. That's why they play the games.

Also, teams win Super Bowls, not players. Players may be members of Super Bowl winning teams. Rivers outplayed Brady all season long in 2018. Brady has made plenty of mistakes over his career and he is presently in gentle decline as a player.
There's a difference between "more talented" and "better". Costa Mesa had more talented players but the Patriots were definitely the better team. Everyone in the universe except for you believed that the Patriots dominated that game from start to finish.

BTW, Rivers play was also declining the last month and into the playoffs. We'll see if he can bounce back next season but he is long in the tooth.
 
#48
Anybody with eyes and a brain can see that the Patriots were stopped on 4 of 6 first half drives and were only able to score three of their first half TDs because calls by referees functionally extended Patriot possessions. That is not some sort of mantra. It is an indisputable fact. My saying it is true does not make it true. It is already true.

It is simple, take away the calls and the Patriots do not get 3 of their 5 first half TDs.

However, if a team is given mulligan after mulligan, they are much more likely to score more points. It also helps a team prevent the other team from scoring because the extra possession takes time and opportunity to score away from the other team.

That said, nobody smoked anyone on that day. The score even with the refs heavily favoring the Patriots was 41-28, which is hardly one team smoking another.
Blaming refs - an oasis inhabited by losers. I give the Chargers themselves credit for not using this cop out of an excuse. They manned up and owned their azzwhipping by the Patriots, who thoroughly dominated them that day, which historically has been business as usual.
 
#49
Blaming refs - an oasis inhabited by losers. I give the Chargers themselves credit for not using this cop out of an excuse. They manned up and owned their azzwhipping by the Patriots, who thoroughly dominated them that day, which historically has been business as usual.
If blaming refs is done by losers, winning is done by cheaters, and riches are owned by amoral assholes.

I am sure the Spanoses were robbed of victory, just like I am sure the NFL screwed over teams along the way to ensure the Spanoses a path to the post season. While the Spanoses didn't deserve a free ride out of the regular season, they do deserve every beating the NFL allows them to get.

Go Fleet.
 
#50
If blaming refs is done by losers, winning is done by cheaters, and riches are owned by amoral assholes.

I am sure the Spanoses were robbed of victory, just like I am sure the NFL screwed over teams along the way to ensure the Spanoses a path to the post season. While the Spanoses didn't deserve a free ride out of the regular season, they do deserve every beating the NFL allows them to get.

Go Fleet.
Well I can’t see your logic in saying the Spanoses were robbed of a victory if it’s rigged. It’s like saying Hulk Hogan was robbed of a victory.
 

Gill Man

Inaugural San Diego Charger Fan Since 1962 FUDEAN
Staff member
Moderator
#52
Well I can’t see your logic in saying the Spanoses were robbed of a victory if it’s rigged. It’s like saying Hulk Hogan was robbed of a victory.
Okay. Solid point. The Iron Sheik would have whooped the Hulkster in a fair fight, but he couldn't take down all us Hulkamaniacs. So, Mean Dean, whutcha gonna do when 10 million Bradiacs run wild on you!
 

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