Julian Edelman Super Doping MVP?

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Gill Man

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Fender57

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Well these guys will be either under a lifetime of severe chronic pain, brain damaged, or dead at a young age so the joke is really on them, isn’t it?
 

Quetzalcoatl

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I don't know who this is. But his name made me Google if he's Jewish. He wasn't born a full-blown Jew like me because his dad, and not his mom, is Jewish. But Edelman identifies as a Jew so that is good enough for me.

Not only do we dominate the science and math awards, but now we have a star football player. Fuck yea.
 
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Gill Man

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I don't know who this is. But his name made me Google if he's Jewish. He wasn't born a full-blown Jew like me because his dad, and not his mom, is Jewish. But Edelman identifies as a Jew so that is good enough for me.

Not only do we dominate the science and math awards, but now we have a star football player. **** yea.
Wait, are you talking about the Master Race????
 

Chaincrusher

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https://sports.yahoo.com/edelman-super-bowl-honor-shines-light-nfl-doping-172411696--nfl.html

More headaches for the already beleagured NFL.......credibility drifting away. Some say he should never have been allowed to play. Some say this should end any talk of him being HOF material. What say you?

Now watch, this will only serve to further motivate that Patriots who will destroy the rest of the AFC again next year lolz.
The NFL is not beleagured. That notion is laughable.

Edelman was caught under the NFL's drug policy. He was not the first and will not be the last. His suspension was appropriate under that policy. I could not care less about his drug usage as far as his Hall of Fame candidacy is concerned.

That said, Edelman is not anywhere close to being a legitimate HOF candidate. If he puts up very good stats for another 5 years or so, there might be something to discuss. As it stands now, he has been a good, but not great NFL player.

The article's author is clueless as well with her comparison to Kaepernick's situation. Kaepernick is not in the NFL because he has offended millions of NFL customers by kneeling during the national anthem. The NFL wants to make money, not lose it and they believe that money will be lost by including Kaepernick in their league. It has absolutely nothing to do with Kaepernick's message. It has everything to do with his conduct. None of the teams want his mess to be part of their image--too divisive, guaranteed to alienate at least some fans, too much risk of lost revenue.

Kaepernick is a moron. He could have raised the exact same points in a way that would have garnered the support of millions instead of alienating millions, and in a way that would have him still employed in the NFL instead of becoming yesterday's news.

Finally, while the Patriots did get hot at the right time, they did not destroy the AFC at all in 2018. They were 2-4 on the road versus AFC opponents in the regular season with both wins being against crappy AFCE teams. They lost on the road to JAC, TEN, MIA and PIT. They are entirely beatable. Brady is in decline and the team's talent, while respectable, does not seem to be in any way overwhelming.
 

Fender57

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And yet the Patriots crushed the Spanoses and cruised to the Super Bowl title.
 

Chaincrusher

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And yet the Patriots crushed the Spanoses and cruised to the Super Bowl title.
The score of the game was 41-28 with the referee calls leading directly to 18 net points for the Patriots in the first half. The Chargers won the second half 21-6 after making some adjustments and not getting totally screwed by the refs as they did in the first half, but it was too little, too late. So the Chargers ended up losing to the eventual SB champions, a team that went 9-0 at home.

Although I expected as much, the Patriots did not play nearly as well against the Chiefs or the Rams away from Gillette Stadium, but were still able to beat the Chiefs and completely shut down the unworthy Rams.

And while I was rooting for the Patriots and happy that they won, there is some frustration at the realization that the loss at home against the Broncos probably cost Chargers a Super Bowl victory.
 

Harryo the K

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The Rusty Bolts will lose and lose and lose to New England till Brady and Coach leave.

Then it's about 60-40 they still lose.
 

Fender57

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The score of the game was 41-28 with the referee calls leading directly to 18 net points for the Patriots in the first half. The Chargers won the second half 21-6 after making some adjustments and not getting totally screwed by the refs as they did in the first half, but it was too little, too late. So the Chargers ended up losing to the eventual SB champions, a team that went 9-0 at home.

Although I expected as much, the Patriots did not play nearly as well against the Chiefs or the Rams away from Gillette Stadium, but were still able to beat the Chiefs and completely shut down the unworthy Rams.

And while I was rooting for the Patriots and happy that they won, there is some frustration at the realization that the loss at home against the Broncos probably cost Chargers a Super Bowl victory.
Not if they had to play the Patriots, who would’ve crushed them in LA too.
 

Quetzalcoatl

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The score of the game was 41-28 with the referee calls leading directly to 18 net points for the Patriots in the first half. The Chargers won the second half 21-6 after making some adjustments and not getting totally screwed by the refs as they did in the first half, but it was too little, too late. So the Chargers ended up losing to the eventual SB champions, a team that went 9-0 at home.

Although I expected as much, the Patriots did not play nearly as well against the Chiefs or the Rams away from Gillette Stadium, but were still able to beat the Chiefs and completely shut down the unworthy Rams.

And while I was rooting for the Patriots and happy that they won, there is some frustration at the realization that the loss at home against the Broncos probably cost Chargers a Super Bowl victory.
If the Spanoses got screwed, it is sweet justice. Fuck them.
 
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Chaincrusher

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If the Spanoses got screwed, it is sweet justice. **** them.
Football fans are the ones that got screwed. Nobody ever got to see the real game that day because the Chargers had three first half defensive stops of the Patriots effectively taken away from them.

The Patriots are a good team. If they are given three mulligans, they are going to get some shots onto the fairway and they did that day, scoring 21 points instead of the 3 they would have had. (The Patriots were already in FG range on the first of the penalty negated stops.)

And to be clear, I am not saying that the Chargers definitely would have won the game. But what can be said is that the game would have been very different with the Chargers making some good adjustments in the second half (in fact winning the second half 21-6) if the score had been only 17-7 in favor of the Patriots instead of 35-7.
 

Chaincrusher

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Not if they had to play the Patriots, who would’ve crushed them in LA too.
The Patriots did not "crush" the Chargers anywhere. The score was 41-28 even with the refs giving NE a net of 18 points.

So, first of all, with a properly called game, the Patriots may not have won the game at home.

Beyond that, the Patriots were not good at all on the road. On their way to being 3-5 on the road (versus 8-0 at home), they lost to teams the Chargers beat. They went +2 in turnover differential against the Chargers, but -2 on the road against a bad Chiefs defense. If they had played the same game against the Chargers with the game being evenly officiated as they played against the Chiefs, there is no way that the Patriots would have beaten the Chargers in Los Angeles, not with a +4 turnover differential swing in favor of the Chargers.

Such a game likely would have been a multiple score victory for the Chargers. Again, even at NE, that game should have been 17-7 at the half. You have to look past the extra time of possession and scores that they were handed by the refs.
 

Concudan

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They got crushed. Even Coach Lynn said so.

But what ever you have to tell yourself so you don't cry yourself to sleep at night...
 

Gill Man

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They got crushed. Even Coach Lynn said so.

But what ever you have to tell yourself so you don't cry yourself to sleep at night...
lolz, can you imagine Coach Lynn telling the players they should have won if it weren't for the refs? lolz.
 

Quetzalcoatl

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Football fans are the ones that got screwed. Nobody ever got to see the real game that day because the Chargers had three first half defensive stops of the Patriots effectively taken away from them.

The Patriots are a good team. If they are given three mulligans, they are going to get some shots onto the fairway and they did that day, scoring 21 points instead of the 3 they would have had. (The Patriots were already in FG range on the first of the penalty negated stops.)

And to be clear, I am not saying that the Chargers definitely would have won the game. But what can be said is that the game would have been very different with the Chargers making some good adjustments in the second half (in fact winning the second half 21-6) if the score had been only 17-7 in favor of the Patriots instead of 35-7.
Uh. Do you know me? You think I don't believe it was rigged for the Patsies?
 

Chaincrusher

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They got crushed. Even Coach Lynn said so.

But what ever you have to tell yourself so you don't cry yourself to sleep at night...
The Chargers failed to overcome the refereeing mistakes and Lynn is rightfully critical of the team for that. They had poor communication in the secondary and failed to maintain gap integrity in the running lanes, especially in the first half. That is all true.

There are consequences that come into play for publicly criticizing the officials. Also, in preparing his team Lynn does not want that to be the team's focus because that does the team no good as they cannot control that. So I get where he is coming from and understand why he has discussed the game the way he has.

HOWEVER, none of that negates the questionable/bad calls that were made that negated stops made by the Chargers on three separate Patriot possessions in the first half. That is not some sort of imaginary reality. That is a fact. Those series were stopped on 3rd down twice only see flags extend two separate possessions. Then, after another stop, the Chargers had a fumble call reversed based upon inconclusive evidence flagrantly in violation of the rules. And that was even more maddening with that inconclusive video evidence following the crystal clear video evidence of the Watt TD the week before that was deemed not conclusive enough followed by the absurd spot a full yard from where Watt was down (the end zone) against the Ravens.

If the Patriots had won by 30 points, the extra 18 points they were allowed to pursue would not have mattered. But since they won by 13, it is fair to say that those points may have mattered. For my part, I just wanted to see a clean game. It would have been a much better game and I do not know which team would have won.
 

Fender57

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The only reason the Chargers scored 28 is because the Patriots let them. They could’ve hung 77 on them if they chose to but they chose to run the clock.

Just because you keep repeating something over and over doesn’t make it true. But it is a technique used by master propaganda-meisters.
 

Harryo the K

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"We read a news article that supports what we believe, and we add it to the 'I'm right about this' column. News articles that contradict what we believe are dismissed. We make up a reason -- maybe the source is part of the conspiracy from the other side or whatever it takes to make sure the 'I'm wrong about this' column remains empty.

"Researchers have done experiments where they hooked up people's brains to scanners and then made them read a story pointing out something stupid their favorite candidate said. The logical parts of the brain stayed quiet, while the emotional parts of the brain lit up. Their brains were weighing the story, not based on what it logically meant for their position, but on the emotional/social consequences of that position being wrong.

"Then, once the brain had decided that this news story being right would mean pain and humiliation for the reader, it told the logical part, 'Figure out a way to use your "logic" stuff to make this pain go away.' The next day, you probably heard those test subjects at the coffee shop going on and on about how biased the press is against their guy."
—Cracked, 5 Logical Fallacies That Make You Wrong More Than You Think
 
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Concudan

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The Chargers failed to overcome the refereeing mistakes and Lynn is rightfully critical of the team for that. They had poor communication in the secondary and failed to maintain gap integrity in the running lanes, especially in the first half. That is all true.

There are consequences that come into play for publicly criticizing the officials. Also, in preparing his team Lynn does not want that to be the team's focus because that does the team no good as they cannot control that. So I get where he is coming from and understand why he has discussed the game the way he has.

HOWEVER, none of that negates the questionable/bad calls that were made that negated stops made by the Chargers on three separate Patriot possessions in the first half. That is not some sort of imaginary reality. That is a fact. Those series were stopped on 3rd down twice only see flags extend two separate possessions. Then, after another stop, the Chargers had a fumble call reversed based upon inconclusive evidence flagrantly in violation of the rules. And that was even more maddening with that inconclusive video evidence following the crystal clear video evidence of the Watt TD the week before that was deemed not conclusive enough followed by the absurd spot a full yard from where Watt was down (the end zone) against the Ravens.

If the Patriots had won by 30 points, the extra 18 points they were allowed to pursue would not have mattered. But since they won by 13, it is fair to say that those points may have mattered. For my part, I just wanted to see a clean game. It would have been a much better game and I do not know which team would have won.
No, I get it, really. This is your coping mechanism. It is less than honest, but if you have to lie to yourself to get through the day, you do what you gotta do.
 

Chaincrusher

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No, I get it, really. This is your coping mechanism. It is less than honest, but if you have to lie to yourself to get through the day, you do what you gotta do.
While I sleep and cope with life's issues just fine, my knowledge of the truth that I have been discussing here actually makes what happened more difficult in terms of coping with it. It is one thing to have just been beaten. It is quite another to have had the game taken away and turned into something else by a series of bad calls.

There is no lie at all. The stops, the key penalties called, and the video reversal are all matters of record. They happened. They are facts--all of them.

The Chargers really did stop the Patriots on 3rd and 6 from the Chargers 9 only to see the drive extended by a defensive PI call against Hayward.

The Chargers really did stop the Patriots on 3rd and 2 from the NE 46 only to see a defensive holding penalty called against King.

The Chargers really did stop the Patriots on 3rd and 7 from the NE 24 only to see a fumbled punt that was ruled to have gone out of bounds reversed to give the Patriots the ball back.

The narrative that the Patriots could not be stopped that has been going around is just a silly display of ignorance. The Chargers actually did stop the Patriots on 4 of their 6 first half drives (the three described above plus the end of the half drive on which the Charger defense stopped the NE receiver in bounds to force the clock to expire).

The Hayward call was questionable. There was some contact, but that kind of play often does not get called, especially in a playoff game. There was certainly less contact on that play than on Malcolm Butler's game clinching Super Bowl interception against the Seahawks.

The other two calls were just awful. What King got called for on the 3rd and 2 simply does not get called in NFL games or else there would be a penalty called on every passing play.

And there cannot be a video replay reversal when a critical part of the process of establishing possession cannot be seen from any replay angle. How does an unseen part of the process prove conclusively that the Patriot defender had possession? The answer is that it does not and it cannot just as it would not have proven that the defender failed to maintain possession had it been ruled the other way on the field. The replay evidence was inconclusive and the call on the field, either way, should have stood.

And none of that even touches the double standard of pass coverage allowed in the first half. Patriot defenders were "allowed to play" against Charger receivers and Charger defenders were called for questionable, even bordering on phantom, calls.

And it also does not touch the illegal hit festival on Rivers. Yes, they called two, but should have called two or three more against the Patriots, including one on a play on which Rivers was taken to the ground about 4 seconds after the play was blown dead.

I think it is pretty easy for a good team to generate momentum when they are essentially given mulligans on three separate drives that failed and they are allowed to violate defensive rules to prevent the other team from keeping pace. Under those circumstances, the Patriots were afforded the opportunity to run up some lopsided, and I would say misleading, statistical advanatges in the first half.

What I was hoping to see was a cleanly officiated game that would allow the players to decide the game fairly within the genarally accepted parameters of the rules. Unfortunately, that did not happen.
 

TTK

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The "bad" calls in the Patriots game just balanced out all the gifts they got all season (Steelers/Browns missed false starts, PI and non-PI call at the end of the Chiefs game, PI call against the Broncos on their game winning drive). In the end everything worked itself out.

The only playoff team that really took it to the Patriots were the Chiefs. Because you know, that Mahomes kid is pretty damn good. I think he won MVP or something like that. :)
 

Gill Man

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The "bad" calls in the Patriots game just balanced out all the gifts they got all season (Steelers/Browns missed false starts, PI and non-PI call at the end of the Chiefs game, PI call against the Broncos on their game winning drive). In the end everything worked itself out.

The only playoff team that really took it to the Patriots were the Chiefs. Because you know, that Mahomes kid is pretty damn good. I think he won MVP or something like that. :)
If you go to the Patriot board they were really pizzed at the calls by the officials in the chugger game. I'm sure whatever calls there were for or against each team were balanced out, they usually do. And besides, any fan or player or coach using officials calls as an excuse are only rationalizing away the fact their team was unable to overcome what happens in every game. That game was about as lopsided as I've seen. It wasn't even close. If you want to know how that game was won and lost , look at the trenches on both sides of the ball, and also look at the phenomenal Patriots D that played unreal thru the entire playoffs.......particularly their backfield which is #1 in the NFL.
 
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Chaincrusher

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The only reason the Chargers scored 28 is because the Patriots let them. They could’ve hung 77 on them if they chose to but they chose to run the clock.

Just because you keep repeating something over and over doesn’t make it true. But it is a technique used by master propaganda-meisters.
Your post is crap.

Lloyd Bentsen once famously said, "If you let me write $200 billion of hot checks every year, I could give you an illusion of prosperity, too."

The Patriots were essentially given mulligans on three separate first half drives on which they were stopped. 35-7 at the half was that illusion of prosperity. They cashed an extra 18 points and a bunch of lopsided statistics that they did not rightfully earn with their "hot checks" in that first half.

And the reality is that while the Chargers surrendered some yardage on a couple of drives in the second half, they did in the second half what they had been doing all season long--bending, but not breaking in giving up just two second half FGs.

They were able to achieve better results for 4 primary reasons--the refs did not negate 3 of their stops with bad calls as they did in the first half; they maintained better gap integrity in their defensive assignments against the run; they had better communication in the secondary; and they blitzed a bit more.

The Patriots could not have "hung 77 on them". They were mixing passes and runs with passes taking place into the second half of the 4th quarter and they could only score 6 points against the Chargers in the second half. Your suggestion that the Patriots took their foot off of the gas pedal represents a complete failure to understand how the Patriots play.

Also, every playoff opponent the Patriots played had better offensive success in the second half than in the first half. That suggests that the Patriots had good game plans, but their opponents made adjustments.

Against the Chargers, the Patriots never played a prevent defense. Their plan was to force Rivers to beat them in the cold with deeper throws against pressure. With the bad referee calls in the first half, the Chargers did not have a chance to establish an offensive rhythm because the Patriots were allowed to possess the ball after the Patriots had been stopped on three separate drives. In the second half, without that impediment and with better defensive play, they were able to build some offensive rhythm, scoring 21 points.

In the second half, sometimes the Patriots won with their pressure and forcing Rivers to hold the ball by covering short, but sometimes the Charger offense won with bigger passing plays, completing 7 passes of 14+ yards in the second half. The approach by the Patriots was basically the polar opposite of what you are suggesting. It more closely resembled what the Ravens did against the Chargers--force the Chargers to beat them against pressure.
 

Quetzalcoatl

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Your post is crap.

Lloyd Bentsen once famously said, "If you let me write $200 billion of hot checks every year, I could give you an illusion of prosperity, too."

The Patriots were essentially given mulligans on three separate first half drives on which they were stopped. 35-7 at the half was that illusion of prosperity. They cashed an extra 18 points and a bunch of lopsided statistics that they did not rightfully earn with their "hot checks" in that first half.

And the reality is that while the Chargers surrendered some yardage on a couple of drives in the second half, they did in the second half what they had been doing all season long--bending, but not breaking in giving up just two second half FGs.

They were able to achieve better results for 4 primary reasons--the refs did not negate 3 of their stops with bad calls as they did in the first half; they maintained better gap integrity in their defensive assignments against the run; they had better communication in the secondary; and they blitzed a bit more.

The Patriots could not have "hung 77 on them". They were mixing passes and runs with passes taking place into the second half of the 4th quarter and they could only score 6 points against the Chargers in the second half. Your suggestion that the Patriots took their foot off of the gas pedal represents a complete failure to understand how the Patriots play.

Also, every playoff opponent the Patriots played had better offensive success in the second half than in the first half. That suggests that the Patriots had good game plans, but their opponents made adjustments.

Against the Chargers, the Patriots never played a prevent defense. Their plan was to force Rivers to beat them in the cold with deeper throws against pressure. With the bad referee calls in the first half, the Chargers did not have a chance to establish an offensive rhythm because the Patriots were allowed to possess the ball after the Patriots had been stopped on three separate drives. In the second half, without that impediment and with better defensive play, they were able to build some offensive rhythm, scoring 21 points.

In the second half, sometimes the Patriots won with their pressure and forcing Rivers to hold the ball by covering short, but sometimes the Charger offense won with bigger passing plays, completing 7 passes of 14+ yards in the second half. The approach by the Patriots was basically the polar opposite of what you are suggesting. It more closely resembled what the Ravens did against the Chargers--force the Chargers to beat them against pressure.
Sounds awesome. I almost wish I had watched.
 

Chaincrusher

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The "bad" calls in the Patriots game just balanced out all the gifts they got all season (Steelers/Browns missed false starts, PI and non-PI call at the end of the Chiefs game, PI call against the Broncos on their game winning drive). In the end everything worked itself out.

The only playoff team that really took it to the Patriots were the Chiefs. Because you know, that Mahomes kid is pretty damn good. I think he won MVP or something like that. :)
The Chumps, er uh, Chiefs, BWAHAHAHA!!! LMAO! They were gifted with the easiest of routes to the Super Bowl--a game against an overrated cupcake Colts team and getting to face the meek Henry Jekyll 3-5 road version of the Patriots instead of the Mr. Hyde 8-0 home version that the Chargers got to play with 7 additional Patriots being allowed on the field at all times in striped uniforms.

As expected, the bad road version of the Patriots tried to give the game away with a -2 turnover differential against a bad KC defense, but Mahomes again came up small just as he had done against the Chargers at home a few weeks earlier again with a +2 turnover bump in his favor, failing even to muster 300 yards of total offense in either game.

But no, it couldn't be that good teams adjusted after seeing Reid's new system once. After all, that would require giving credit to Reid for his system. And it couldn't be that the Chumps were missing Hunt because that would require giving credit to players other than Kermit. Who knows? Maybe Kermit is just regressing.

Play that Tomahawk Chop. Oh, oh, oh-oh-oh, the Chumps and Kermit S-U-U-UCK, S-U-U-UCK!!!

Finally, regarding Kermit and the Chumps, Kermit did not "win" the MVP, but it was given to him. It is not the first time nor will it be the last that that now diminished award will be given to the wrong person. To borrow from Dan Rather, Brees should be madder than a rained on rooster for getting screwed twice at the end of this season.

As for the Chargers, they got completely screwed by the refs against the Steelers and the Chiefs and won anyway. They got a meaningless call against the Browns in 38-14 blowout that was only that close because the Chargers, unlike the Patriots, do have a bad habit of playing a prevent defense late in blowout games and surrendering garbage time points that make games look closer than they really are.

And their game winning TD against the Broncos came on a third quarter drive on which there were no penalties. On their final TD drive the Chargers overcame a holding penalty and a tripping penalty called against them. They declined a defensive PI call and took the reception that occurred on the play. The Broncos committed PI, but Allen caught the ball anyway. The final score was 23-9, a leaning to the top of the range two score win.
 
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