Brees > Rivers

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Fouts

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Aug 17, 2007
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I had rose colored glasses. I can't see Rivers doing anything Brees has done. Just look at week 1 victories vs.opponents!

Prove me I am wrong.

Brees 1st ballot

Rivers maybe 1st, certainly, 2nd, or 3rd.
 
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Fouts

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But is it the Spanos poorly picked personnel, hostile GM (aka 4 elderly cheap owners), cheap coach decisions? We will never know what would have been PR in a better organization. But at the end of the day he is a choke artist with 200M, so I guess he is a winner.
 

TTK

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But is it the Spanos poorly picked personnel, hostile GM (aka 4 elderly cheap owners), cheap coach decisions? We will never know what would have been PR in a better organization. But at the end of the day he is a choke artist with 200M, so I guess he is a winner.
Archie was right.
 
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Gill Man

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There is no doubt brees is the better qb, you are right. Pr is a choke artist in huge games, too excitable and a motor mouth.
 

Gill Man

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rivers Is overrated. Never did shiit for me inFF :D
well that settles it,,,,he is s schitty FF player and therefore should be denied access to the HOF.
 

Fender57

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There is no doubt brees is the better qb, you are right. Pr is a choke artist in huge games, too excitable and a motor mouth.
I always got shit over on the other board for expressing my dislike of Rivers’ spastic tendencies. I felt that was holding him back from ever winning and so far I’m right. I’m sure that fact is one of Belichick’s “ace in the holes” he holds when playing the Chuggers. He knows which buttons to push to make that guy self destruct.
 
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Gill Man

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I always got shit over on the other board for expressing my dislike of Rivers’ spastic tendencies. I felt that was holding him back from ever winning and so far I’m right. I’m sure that fact is one of Belichick’s “ace in the holes” he holds when playing the Chuggers. He knows which buttons to push to make that guy self destruct.
most definitely there were homers over on that forum that were policemen and anyone badmouthing spanos, management (ass jack), or Rivers or any other player would get flack from the same individuals over and over. It was hilarious actually. At one point I predicted in a post that within about 5 min one of the policemen would show up (told a newbie what the deal was) and sure enough it happened as predicted LOL. I was really critical of ass jack and spanos almost constantly, gave ass jack props when due but mostly bagged on him after he became GM and was a duck out of water in that role. I never gave spanos a break...knew what he was all about from nearly the start after he started effing everything up about the team. Only guy that saved his azz was John Butler who promptly kicked the bucket. But yeah, never ever liked Rivers excitability during games because it always came back to bite him and the team in the azz at some crucial juncture. It still does it to this day.
 

Lance19

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Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
Rivers is a good to very good quarterback.
Not a great one.
Not a bad one.
He hasn't had enough opportunities in big games to define him as a failure,
in that area...but he also hasn't stepped up.
He struggles against better competition as all but the elite do.

At the end of the day, many (injury free) good to very good seasons
will result in stats that are impossible to deny, re. the HoF.

Kind of reminds me of Curtis Martin: Somehow he finished ahead of LT in career
rushing yards, :eek: but no one who saw both men's careers would think Martin was
even in LT's class, never mind superior. Martin just played more at a good level and piled up stats.

I don't think Rivers will get a Lombardi, nor do I think he expects to, as long as he's a spanos.
But a couple more empty 4,300 yard seasons will create stats that will silence almost
all the "But he's never won anything" folks.
(Yes, Fouts had "But he's never won anything" folks, but Fouts was the league's
best passer for a 4 year block...towering over his peers in a way PR never has...)
 
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Gill Man

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Rivers is a good to very good quarterback.
Not a great one.
Not a bad one.
He hasn't had enough opportunities in big games to define him as a failure,
in that area...but he also hasn't stepped up.
He struggles against better competition as all but the elite do.

At the end of the day, many (injury free) good to very good seasons
will result in stats that are impossible to deny, re. the HoF.

Kind of reminds me of Curtis Martin: Somehow he finished ahead of LT in career
rushing yards, :eek: but no one who saw both men's careers would think Martin was
even in LT's class, never mind superior. Martin just played more at a good level and piled up stats.

I don't think Rivers will get a Lombardi, nor do I think he expects to, as long as he's a spanos.
But a couple more empty 4,300 yard seasons will create stats that will silence almost
all the "But he's never won anything" folks.
(Yes, Fouts had "But he's never won anything" folks, but Fouts was the league's
best passer for a 4 year block...towering over his peers in a way PR never has...)
Re: Fouts.....not even a close comparison with Rivers. Different era when the passing game wasn't like a video pinball game. Today's game encourages huge stats from the QB's and protects the QB. Fouts had none of that luxury. It's why I don't pay a huge amount of attention to QB's racking up all their yards in today's game. The HOF will be littered with QB's like Rivers and it will diminish the meaning of getting there. They need to change the criteria to get there because the game has changes so radically.
 

Lance19

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Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
Re: Fouts.....not even a close comparison with Rivers. Different era when the passing game wasn't like a video pinball game. Today's game encourages huge stats from the QB's and protects the QB. Fouts had none of that luxury. It's why I don't pay a huge amount of attention to QB's racking up all their yards in today's game. The HOF will be littered with QB's like Rivers and it will diminish the meaning of getting there. They need to change the criteria to get there because the game has changes so radically.
No argument there.

But people are still marveling at the longevity of Brady & Brees...they haven't yet realized
that such QB longevity will probably become much, much more common, the longer we play under
the "treat the QB like fine china" rules. And I think Rivers will benefit from this:
There's currently only 7 QBs in front of PR for career passing yards--
tellingly, 4 of them are currently playing!!
PR will likely pass Eli & Roethlisberger...ending his career in 6th place...which will seem
impressive to most.

But yeah, the combo of easy 300 yard games + taking few hits will surely water down the record book...
 
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Gill Man

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No argument there.

But people are still marveling at the longevity of Brady & Brees...they haven't yet realized
that such QB longevity will probably become much, much more common, the longer we play under
the "treat the QB like fine china" rules. And I think Rivers will benefit from this:
There's currently only 7 QBs in front of PR for career passing yards--
tellingly, 4 of them are currently playing!!
PR will likely pass Eli & Roethlisberger...ending his career in 6th place...which will seem
impressive to most.

But yeah, the combo of easy 300 yard games + taking few hits will surely water down the record book...
yeah didn't even think about the longevity issue as well. Good point. They need to have 2 HOF's 1) Pre-Woosified 2) Post-Woosified lolz.
 
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Harryo the K

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Everyone gets in the HOF now.

It's a business decision perk to Spanos.
Unless within the five years after he retires, Rivers gets Raptured.
That probably would be a disqualification..
 
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ThunderHorse17

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No argument there.

But people are still marveling at the longevity of Brady & Brees...they haven't yet realized
that such QB longevity will probably become much, much more common, the longer we play under
the "treat the QB like fine china" rules. And I think Rivers will benefit from this:
There's currently only 7 QBs in front of PR for career passing yards--
tellingly, 4 of them are currently playing!!
PR will likely pass Eli & Roethlisberger...ending his career in 6th place...which will seem
impressive to most.

But yeah, the combo of easy 300 yard games + taking few hits will surely water down the record book...
And more games in the regular season.
 
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Gill Man

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The first one is just for Jim Brown!
yeah, in a league of his own.....just watching some of those old clips is remarkable. Other tough guys played on that level too. Butkus for defense. Those 2 always stand out. Nitschke too. But so many incredible tough athletes who played for pennies compared to today's players and played for the love of the game and the way it should be played. And they played thru injuries and without substitutions. Different game really....totally different. Commercialism destroyed that element of it.
 

Quetzalcoatl

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No argument there.

But people are still marveling at the longevity of Brady & Brees...they haven't yet realized
that such QB longevity will probably become much, much more common, the longer we play under
the "treat the QB like fine china" rules. And I think Rivers will benefit from this:
There's currently only 7 QBs in front of PR for career passing yards--
tellingly, 4 of them are currently playing!!
PR will likely pass Eli & Roethlisberger...ending his career in 6th place...which will seem
impressive to most.

But yeah, the combo of easy 300 yard games + taking few hits will surely water down the record book...
Rivers was rocked by linemen and/or linebackers on just about every play for five or six years. He played one game with a busted ACL. Rivers is a slimebag for playing for the L.A. Spanoses, but let's not question his toughness.
 

Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Fouts.....not even a close comparison with Rivers. Different era when the passing game wasn't like a video pinball game. Today's game encourages huge stats from the QB's and protects the QB. Fouts had none of that luxury. It's why I don't pay a huge amount of attention to QB's racking up all their yards in today's game. The HOF will be littered with QB's like Rivers and it will diminish the meaning of getting there. They need to change the criteria to get there because the game has changes so radically.
Fouts took a beating at the end of his career, but, during his prime, he was protected by one of the best lines ever. Every one of those linemen was at least a Pro Bowler. A couple belong in the Hall.

Rivers, on the other hand, after his first few seasons, once McNeill and Dielman were no longer healthy, was beat down hardcore game after game for years. Rivers was protected by some linemen who would have had a hard time making a decent college team's roster. One year Rivers was behind a 4th-string center. And it wasn't like Coach Norv was using some modern offense that allowed Rivers to unload the ball in any reasonable amount of time. No modern rules could rescue Rivers from the slaughter.
 

Lance19

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Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
Rivers was rocked by linemen and/or linebackers on just about every play for five or six years. He played one game with a busted ACL. Rivers is a slimebag for playing for the L.A. Spanoses, but let's not question his toughness.
I'm not questioning River's durability relative to other QBs of this era.

But those of us who've been obsessively watching this game since the '70s
know that previous QBs routinely took hits that almost never happen today.
It's apples and oranges. And surely a big part of why we're seeing QBs able to play much longer.
 

Quetzalcoatl

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I'm not questioning River's durability relative to other QBs of this era.

But those of us who've been obsessively watching this game since the '70s
know that previous QBs routinely took hits that almost never happen today.
It's apples and oranges. And surely a big part of why we're seeing QBs able to play much longer.
I agree that, as a whole, today's QBs have had it easier than old-school QBs, but Rivers is the wrong example. Try Brady or Peyton Manning instead.
 

Quetzalcoatl

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No doubt there's tons of better examples!
I'm guessing that I was writing about Rivers
because the topic of this thread is "Brees > Rivers"
If you are on topic, it doesn't make much sense to bring up old-school rules. Brees isn't a 70s quarterback anymore than Rivers is. Your point had nothing to do with the topic. Anyway, now we are way off topic.

Still off topic - if this play is any indication, Rivers still gets crap protection. Maybe it is a screen play, but, even on screen plays, a team at least pretends it can block.

 
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Lance19

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Wherever these Valkyries drop me...
If you are on topic, it doesn't make much sense to bring up old-school rules. Brees isn't a 70s quarterback anymore than Rivers is. Your point had nothing to do with the topic. Anyway, now we are way off topic.

Still off topic - if this play is any indication, Rivers still gets crap protection. Maybe it is a screen play, but, even on screen plays, a team at least pretends it can block.

shark.jpg
Missed you, Q...
 

Quetzalcoatl

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On topic:

The Spanoses sucked with Brees when the Spanoses couldn't block and did well the one year the Spanoses did block for Brees.

The Spanoses sucked with Rivers when the Spanoses didn't block and did well the few years the Spanoses did block for Rivers.

Rivers and Brees fall in the category of most above-average NFL starting QBs. Neither was better than the other.

In my book, the best QBs I ever saw, the ones who led their teams to victories even when their lines weren't getting it done, were Marino and Elway. I would put a couple of seasons of Vick and Favre above any of Elway or Marino, but the greatness of Vick and Favre didn't last long.