Breaking Ground - New SDSU Stadium Work Commences

Gill Man

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Ha! A classic Harry post. That made me smile. Well, yes I suppose you are right re: public funds and an NFL owner will now be FORCED to build somewhere else and purchase the land. I fully realize that and that is why I'm so upset I guess......if the city had foresight and were at all competent they would have made sure that land was utilized for truly mutlipurpose rather than the fake aztec proposal which they know is not NFL standard. As in 2004 they should have made it useable for all, and above what THAT proposal was (largely for dean's sake) that should have included a sports arena. ALL of that should be in MV, not scattered from here to kingdom come . I guess that was too much to ask of this backward looking city. Some say (and I remember this distinctly) that sports are not that important to a city and San Diegans are not fully behind sports, that it's a minority of people interested in how that land is used. Maybe so, but to me an identity ofa city is tied to it's sports teams......maybe I'm not thinking correctly about that , maybe sports suck in the great scheme of things. maybe one day peoplewill wonder what this oval wierd pigskin covered object was they dug out of the dirt. Maybe time has passed me by and my vision for SD is long gone. Well that little stadium in MV will remind me how wrong apparently my vision for San Diego was , it sure will never ever materialize now. NFL in Pendleton....that's the ticket, make people drive 40 miles to see it, and no tailgating , sorry, Marines need security. But even that vision is likely wrong. We likely will never see theNFL in SD ever again. spenis and kroenke and their NFL cronies will make sure of that.
 

Gill Man

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Hey I have an idea, since that aztec mutlipuropos POS looks a lot like Stubby Sr., let's have SignGuy do all the flyovers. No more miramar Top Gun stuff. :tup:
 
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Fender57

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Regarding 2004, the city was embroiled in a multitude of financial and legal crises, not to mention NIMBY assholes like Seahag Donna Frye and The Ultimate Gadfly Mike Aguirre doing anything and everything to railroad it. On top of that, the proposal offered by the Spenis’s turned out to be untenable, there definitely would’ve been overruns and they would’ve probably bailed for LA anyway, looking for a way to spin it into San Diego’s fault.
 

Gill Man

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Regarding 2004, the city was embroiled in a multitude of financial and legal crises, not to mention NIMBY assholes like Seahag Donna Frye and The Ultimate Gadfly Mike Aguirre doing anything and everything to railroad it. On top of that, the proposal offered by the Spenis’s turned out to be untenable, there definitely would’ve been overruns and they would’ve probably bailed for LA anyway, looking for a way to spin it into San Diego’s fault.
yup remember all that. It was a mess. my point in bringing that up was it was an NFL owner (of which spenis is not really, he is just faking it) should be given that land to develop and under the provision it is multiuse and for NFL/Aztecs,, an arena for NHL, NBA, Aztecs, and etc etc (concerts et al) and then hotels (for SB fans and final 4 fans etc etc) and shopping / restaurants/ and finally commercial residential. It's a goldmine. But NOOOO, GIVE it away to the asstecs. WTF. But yeah you are totally correct....that 2004 was not gonna fly due to all the hurdles everyone put up plus not the right deal because of who spenis is, a total parasite on the city. Everyting combined in a perfect storm to make the NFL leave...and spenis was the #1 problem. After that there were many others obviously but all minor IMO compared with how much spenis figured into it all. spenis and fabiani wanted out the day fabiani was hired...they knew they wante LA....fabiani was a huge conlict of interest as a hire by spenis and just like most of his other hires.

I've said many times before, an example of the type of potential NFL team owner that would be ideal to develop that land would be Joseph Tsai. Idon't know if he was ever involved or thought of getting involved or if the city even bothered to ask him. To me that was the kind of guy you want to hand that land over to for a fair price. But no doubt there were corrupt individuals who would never allow thatto happen either.....SD is a corrupt town re: the city council and deals for land etc. Many other cities are the same. But in SD sports , major sports, takes 2nd place, I think there must be those in positions of power andinfluence who are anti-sports. Just a hunch. And of course always remember it was spenis who made SD politicians, business people, and fans become wary of sports owners and how they operate. A guy like spenis gives sports , and in his case the NFL, a very bad reputation making it look like a total scam to ripoff cities. Everythinghe ever did in SD was to leverage against the city and taxpayers as much as he could. That is whatyou call a pennypincher. As much as he did to piss off the people of SD , if anyone thought he had an iota of a chance to win an election, they would have to have been absent from SD forthe time spenis ripped off the city. Spenis couldn't even win an election for dog catcher , even though he is so evil he'd probably be very good at it and enjoy it.
 
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Lance19

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If a new owner...a real owner, aka billionaire...wants to build a stadium or corporate headquarters in San Diego they'll do so. There is no longer any more municipal or state money available (as the Bills fans will soon find out). Fans or cities are only important if that new owner is a fan of a team or city. I recall, the news reports that the Library at Alexandria was no more....bummed me out....the Library which was started in 248BC and lasted, despite rumors that Julius Caesar burning of his ships, which only caused partial destruction of the Library, to its final destruction in 642AD by the Calip Omar.....

If folks today know nothing about it......
Well, let's just say a fire destroyed the Murph. It's a memory now.

View attachment 8614
View attachment 8615
Remember kids, don't do drugs.
 

Fender57

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Gilly, you’re right about needing a guy like Tsai. Maybe the NFL is not coming back but the Sports Arena renovation looks like will be happening so maybe we get lucky and Tsai brings the NHL and/or the NBA here in a state of the art arena.
 
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Harryo the K

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Easy on my Aztecs, foreigners.

SDSU BEATS UTAH STATE 68-57. No. 19 looking good.
 

Faded Blues

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SDSU is a broke ass bitch but they own the land if any nfl savior came and dropped a bomb of cash, they would immediately take the money and build whatever the savior wanted.

dont put mv on sdsu put it on satanos for being a fucking dumbass broke bitch.
 

Fender57

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SDSU is a broke ass bitch but they own the land if any nfl savior came and dropped a bomb of cash, they would immediately take the money and build whatever the savior wanted.

dont put mv on sdsu put it on satanos for being a fucking dumbass broke bitch.
There were also certain city leaders who salivated at the prospect of the Chuggers leaving so they could make some easy money with Soccer City. SDSU threw a monkey wrench into that, which is why I can’t totally shit on SDSU because they usurped the corrupt plan to hand it over to Sucker City.
 
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Harryo the K

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There were also certain city leaders who salivated at the prospect of the Chuggers leaving so they could make some easy money with Soccer City. SDSU threw a monkey wrench into that, which is why I can’t totally shit on SDSU because they usurped the corrupt plan to hand it over to Sucker City.
Things move on. People would not like it if the Aztecs were playing games in Orange County.
If an NFL owner come back, they'd want their own land and own stadium. Plenty of land.

More soccer news:

 
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TTK

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Things move on. People would not like it if the Aztecs were playing games in Orange County.
If an NFL owner come back, they'd want their own land and own stadium. Plenty of land.

More soccer news:

It's just too stupid not to have the MLS here. We're a big soccer city (no pun intended).
 

Fender57

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Things move on. People would not like it if the Aztecs were playing games in Orange County.
If an NFL owner come back, they'd want their own land and own stadium. Plenty of land.

More soccer news:

Yeah, that’s one reason SDSU was a better choice, because MLS could easily slide in there to play, and the campus expansion could occur.

Of course the penultimate choice would’ve been an NFL stadium.
 

Concudan

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I missed this back in February. Love him or hate him, Nicky is one of our great historians and always entertaining. Good read.

"And one of disappointment — in the way City Hall’s Ham & Eggers neglected it over the decades, allowing it to decay, and of course what happened too often inside of it."

I can't tell you how many San Diego First people told me I was smoking crack when I said the city let the stadium deteriorate. Maybe they thought the pot holes in the parking lot were swimming pools, and the fact that the announcers had beer pouring on them from the spilt drinks in the stands above them, raining through the cracks in the ceiling as normal architectural highlights. Thank goodness Canepa calls a pig a pig.
 

Fender57

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"And one of disappointment — in the way City Hall’s Ham & Eggers neglected it over the decades, allowing it to decay, and of course what happened too often inside of it."

I can't tell you how many San Diego First people told me I was smoking crack when I said the city let the stadium deteriorate. Maybe they thought the pot holes in the parking lot were swimming pools, and the fact that the announcers had beer pouring on them from the spilt drinks in the stands above them, raining through the cracks in the ceiling as normal architectural highlights. Thank goodness Canepa calls a pig a pig.
There was a reason they did that, as I pretty much retort each time it’s brought up: Spanos was asked to help out with San Diego’s financial woes. While admittedly Spanos was under no obligation to help, he famously turned his back on the city and said “a deal is a deal”. So the city volleyed back by only providing the bare minimum upkeep required. The city was used to the partnership with the team as established under Gene Klein (for as big an MF he was, he understood the importance of partnering with the city) - they had each other’s backs.

Had Spanos helped out, maybe renegotiated some terms to provide some relief, perhaps things would not deteriorate (no pun intended) on so many fronts. It turned into a pissing contest on both sides. Spanos was a lousy civic partner and the city responded according to the rules Spanos set up. While I am NO FAN of our city leaders and the way they run things, and while I do put some blame on them because they were greedy pigs, it was Spanos who kicked off the treachery.
 
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Gill Man

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There was a reason they did that, as I pretty much retort each time it’s brought up: Spanos was asked to help out with San Diego’s financial woes. While admittedly Spanos was under no obligation to help, he famously turned his back on the city and said “a deal is a deal”. So the city volleyed back by only providing the bare minimum upkeep required. The city was used to the partnership with the team as established under Gene Klein (for as big an MF he was, he understood the importance of partnering with the city) - they had each other’s backs.

Had Spanos helped out, maybe renegotiated some terms to provide some relief, perhaps things would not deteriorate (no pun intended) on so many fronts. It turned into a pissing contest on both sides. Spanos was a lousy civic partner and the city responded according to the rules Spanos set up. While I am NO FAN of our city leaders and the way they run things, and while I do put some blame on them because they were greedy pigs, it was Spanos who kicked off the treachery.
yeah bottom line is it's always a 'partnership' between owner and city and it requires both sides be transparent and sacrifice a little for the good of the many. Unfortunately Deanis is such a pissant he could not ever bring himself to compromise his principles of making sure he got the better of a negotiating partner. That's in his DNA. Fuck the spanoses....they were and still are a complete embarrassment and made sure they either took SD for a ride or left, couldn't be a 50/50 compromise. That all started way back. And that does not absolve the city of their total ineptness in the whole thing either....both sides failed miserably. But I am convinced if it had been a reasonable owner such as a guy like Tsai, a deal would have gotten done and the bolts would be playing in a new stadium in MV by now.
 
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Concudan

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There was a reason they did that, as I pretty much retort each time it’s brought up: Spanos was asked to help out with San Diego’s financial woes. While admittedly Spanos was under no obligation to help, he famously turned his back on the city and said “a deal is a deal”. So the city volleyed back by only providing the bare minimum upkeep required. The city was used to the partnership with the team as established under Gene Klein (for as big an MF he was, he understood the importance of partnering with the city) - they had each other’s backs.

Had Spanos helped out, maybe renegotiated some terms to provide some relief, perhaps things would not deteriorate (no pun intended) on so many fronts. It turned into a pissing contest on both sides. Spanos was a lousy civic partner and the city responded according to the rules Spanos set up. While I am NO FAN of our city leaders and the way they run things, and while I do put some blame on them because they were greedy pigs, it was Spanos who kicked off the treachery.
I see that as a stupid retort.

The City owned the stadium. They set the ticket deal, they refused to fix the handicap issues in the stadium, refused to fix the facility. Are the Spanos dicks. Yes. But the house I rent, if the AC breaks am I on the hook for it, or my land lord? When the Spanos offered to build an 800 million new facility, hand it over to the city, in exchange for building commercial facilities on part of the lot (which would have increased the tax revenue) the city said no.

Basically you are agreeing that the City helped push the Chargers out. The City did not live up to their responsibilities where the stadium was concerned.

Now, I agree the Spanos SHOULD have helped out. But as you say they were under no obligation. The city made the money on the stadium for non-NFL activities. Petco on the other hand, the Padres make money on all activities at the stadium. The city NEVER tried that approach with the Chargers, make them responsible for the upkeep, but allowing them to make money on the concerts, CIF football, Big Truck Rallies etc... They never made them real partners in it as they did with the Padres.

That is the City. Neither side worked well together, it was not all Spanos though. The Spanos, being ass holes just probably made it easier for the City to allow their stadium to crumble.
 

Fender57

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I see that as a stupid retort.

The City owned the stadium. They set the ticket deal, they refused to fix the handicap issues in the stadium, refused to fix the facility. Are the Spanos dicks. Yes. But the house I rent, if the AC breaks am I on the hook for it, or my land lord? When the Spanos offered to build an 800 million new facility, hand it over to the city, in exchange for building commercial facilities on part of the lot (which would have increased the tax revenue) the city said no.

Basically you are agreeing that the City helped push the Chargers out. The City did not live up to their responsibilities where the stadium was concerned.

Now, I agree the Spanos SHOULD have helped out. But as you say they were under no obligation. The city made the money on the stadium for non-NFL activities. Petco on the other hand, the Padres make money on all activities at the stadium. The city NEVER tried that approach with the Chargers, make them responsible for the upkeep, but allowing them to make money on the concerts, CIF football, Big Truck Rallies etc... They never made them real partners in it as they did with the Padres.

That is the City. Neither side worked well together, it was not all Spanos though. The Spanos, being ass holes just probably made it easier for the City to allow their stadium to crumble.
Well if my retort is stupid, yours is steeped in ignorance (and pretty stupid too). You neglect to bring up one thing - the stadium upgrade was offered up to the Chargers as a gift for agreeing to stay. It was a huge sweetheart deal for Spanos. It was given as a gesture of good faith in a partnership. Just a mere two years after the upgrades were finished the Spanoses were crying about needing a new stadium - this was before the city got into deep financial shit and needed to renegotiate the deal. Nope, Spanos saw an opening to try and put the screws to the city.

And about that offer that Spanos gave for building the stadium in exchange for the land it has already been penciled out that the budget attached to the deal was never gonna cut it, there would be huge overruns that Spanos could not afford, and where would that lead us? Pretty much where we are now, Spanos in LA with the added bonus of Spanos recouping his investment by turning Mission Valley into a condo wasteland.

Despite all that back and forth bullshit it was not necessary for Spanos to leave. A deal could have been done. But Spanos never committed to a deal - they had a bunch of “ideas” but other than the vote downtown there was no real proposal made by Spanos for Mission Valley, the bay front, both Chula Vista locations, Vista, there was no real due diligence, just a lot of posturing and wasted time. And now we know the reason - they could not afford to partner with the city anyway. Look at their situation now.

The stadium suffered and ultimately met its untimely demise because Spanos tried to pull a fast one on the city. The city is indeed corrupt, and there were a lot of elements within it that had a vested ($$$) interests in squeezing the Chugs. On top of that you had the normal NIMBY gadflies like Aguirre, Henderson, etc suing everyone and anything. But it could have been overcome. Look at the Padres. They managed to do it with the same issues and they overcame it - you know why? They partnered with the city. They both had a vested interest to get it done. Spanos did not. Why should the city bend over backwards for these Judases? Klein was a raging asshole but he would’ve gotten his stadium in Mission Valley.
 

Concudan

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Well if my retort is stupid, yours is steeped in ignorance (and pretty stupid too). You neglect to bring up one thing - the stadium upgrade was offered up to the Chargers as a gift for agreeing to stay. It was a huge sweetheart deal for Spanos. It was given as a gesture of good faith in a partnership. Just a mere two years after the upgrades were finished the Spanoses were crying about needing a new stadium - this was before the city got into deep financial shit and needed to renegotiate the deal. Nope, Spanos saw an opening to try and put the screws to the city.

And about that offer that Spanos gave for building the stadium in exchange for the land it has already been penciled out that the budget attached to the deal was never gonna cut it, there would be huge overruns that Spanos could not afford, and where would that lead us? Pretty much where we are now, Spanos in LA with the added bonus of Spanos recouping his investment by turning Mission Valley into a condo wasteland.

Despite all that back and forth bullshit it was not necessary for Spanos to leave. A deal could have been done. But Spanos never committed to a deal - they had a bunch of “ideas” but other than the vote downtown there was no real proposal made by Spanos for Mission Valley, the bay front, both Chula Vista locations, Vista, there was no real due diligence, just a lot of posturing and wasted time. And now we know the reason - they could not afford to partner with the city anyway. Look at their situation now.

The stadium suffered and ultimately met its untimely demise because Spanos tried to pull a fast one on the city. The city is indeed corrupt, and there were a lot of elements within it that had a vested ($$$) interests in squeezing the Chugs. On top of that you had the normal NIMBY gadflies like Aguirre, Henderson, etc suing everyone and anything. But it could have been overcome. Look at the Padres. They managed to do it with the same issues and they overcame it - you know why? They partnered with the city. They both had a vested interest to get it done. Spanos did not. Why should the city bend over backwards for these Judases? Klein was a raging asshole but he would’ve gotten his stadium in Mission Valley.
We can agree to disagree. The City should have taken the deal. If they had, the city would still have an NFL team. Instead the City, and many fans who are SD first wanted charity. Give up noting and get everything.

The upgrades were shoddy in the first place and never fixed the handicapped issues. That cost the city money, and it was the cities fault.

You say my take is seeped in ignorance. What is yours where you wanted the Spanos to pay for the upkeep and get nothing in return?

Why I thought your retort was stupid, which is a bit harsh I admit, I should have said it another way, is you say the Spanos should have helped out. But never suggest what the city should give. But when the 800 million stadium deal, again you seem to want charity for the city without them giving up anything. Would you agree to that? I would not.

You ask why should the city bend over backwards for the Spanos, while seeming to suggest the Spanos should have bent over and taken it up the boodyhoo for the City. That seems very biased IMHO.

If you were the Spanos would you have honestly stayed? I would not.

A crumbling stadium, 16 years of never being on the same page.

What I would have done differently was not blame the SD fans. It was the City, not the fans that was part of the problem.
 

Fender57

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We can agree to disagree. The City should have taken the deal. If they had, the city would still have an NFL team. Instead the City, and many fans who are SD first wanted charity. Give up noting and get everything.

The upgrades were shoddy in the first place and never fixed the handicapped issues. That cost the city money, and it was the cities fault.

You say my take is seeped in ignorance. What is yours where you wanted the Spanos to pay for the upkeep and get nothing in return?

Why I thought your retort was stupid, which is a bit harsh I admit, I should have said it another way, is you say the Spanos should have helped out. But never suggest what the city should give. But when the 800 million stadium deal, again you seem to want charity for the city without them giving up anything. Would you agree to that? I would not.

You ask why should the city bend over backwards for the Spanos, while seeming to suggest the Spanos should have bent over and taken it up the boodyhoo for the City. That seems very biased IMHO.

If you were the Spanos would you have honestly stayed? I would not.

A crumbling stadium, 16 years of never being on the same page.

What I would have done differently was not blame the SD fans. It was the City, not the fans that was part of the problem.
The stadium upgrades were basically a gift to Spanos. And I disagree about Spanos’s offer, they would not be able to cover the overruns and the city would not either due to their own financial issues. The Chargers would have bolted much sooner than they did, they’d have no choice.
 

Concudan

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The stadium upgrades were basically a gift to Spanos. And I disagree about Spanos’s offer, they would not be able to cover the overruns and the city would not either due to their own financial issues. The Chargers would have bolted much sooner than they did, they’d have no choice.
It sounds like we both feel niether side really came to the table at the same time.
 
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Gill Man

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I still say if it were another owner committed to SD and to working with the city that the bolts would still be in MV in a new stadium. IIRC the NFL was pretty certain a deal could be eeked out if both sides sat down and worked diligently to compromise......and last report was the city wanted to begin concentrating on getting MV done. But by that time the NFL unwittingly made that an impossibility. The NFL is also blame by giving spanos the cheapest way out with the least amount of overhead.....go rent free in LA. And how did Kroenke allow that? Because the NFL had given him first shot at LA and he owed them something? It all wreaks of corruption and greed on the part of all 3 sides.I will always believe spanos wanted out way earlier than most report....Fabiani was the prior vice mayor of LA and had many friends and associates there and I'd bet his advice to spanos was always tainted with that bias.
 
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Concudan

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I still say if it were another owner committed to SD and to working with the city that the bolts would still be in MV in a new stadium. IIRC the NFL was pretty certain a deal could be eeked out if both sides sat down and worked diligently to compromise......and last report was the city wanted to begin concentrating on getting MV done. But by that time the NFL unwittingly made that an impossibility. The NFL is also blame by giving spanos the cheapest way out with the least amount of overhead.....go rent free in LA. And how did Kroenke allow that? Because the NFL had given him first shot at LA and he owed them something? It all wreaks of corruption and greed on the part of all 3 sides.I will always believe spanos wanted out way earlier than most report....Fabiani was the prior vice mayor of LA and had many friends and associates there and I'd bet his advice to spanos was always tainted with that bias.
Well... If the sister forces a sale (I think it is a long shot), then the NFL might be forced to start looking at how they control these moves.
 

Gill Man

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Well... If the sister forces a sale (I think it is a long shot), then the NFL might be forced to start looking at how they control these moves.
yeah one would think that would be the case......IIRC dean had his supporters , a group of em led by Jerry Richardson, and so they probably wielded enough power to allow for that kind of compromise deal to appease dean....now they likely regret it. But bottom line is the will likely never be any guarantee a city will havea team other than GB.....the owners can go rogue and most often will take the best $$ over the loyalty to a city if it comes down to that. I think though that the animosity between dean and city was so great over time that compromise was out of the question by time the city came to it's senses and decided , gee maybe we should get serious. Just was all around a major clusterfck on all 3 sides.

That Canepa article is a good historical replay of some things that happened at the stadium but I have to disagree with him re: feelings when seeing that torn down. He is happy about it. I don't get a good feeling about anything when seeing that...it just is a reminder of what could have been, what should have been, and how there was failure by all parties involved to make that whole area the best sporting and otherwise center for SD. Truly MV was a jewel for the league that they let slip away. SB's there were awesome.....back in the day....I remember the downtown parties the night before.....incredible for the city and the fans. Announcer, teams, visiting fans...LOVED coming to SD and MV. That can never happen again now that the Aztecs were give rights to it all. Another major failing by this city.
 
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Fender57

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That Canepa article is a good historical replay of some things that happened at the stadium but I have to disagree with him re: feelings when seeing that torn down. He is happy about it. I don't get a good feeling about anything when seeing that...it just is a reminder of what could have been, what should have been, and how there was failure by all parties involved to make that whole area the best sporting and otherwise center for SD. Truly MV was a jewel for the league that they let slip away. SB's there were awesome.....back in the day....I remember the downtown parties the night before.....incredible for the city and the fans. Announcer, teams, visiting fans...LOVED coming to SD and MV. That can never happen again now that the Aztecs were give rights to it all. Another major failing by this city.
I think Canepa feels the same way you do. He was really just personifying the viewpoint of a jilted lover, making it seem like he was glad a symbol of the bad times was being buried, but the overall vibe I got was he had a broken heart and used false bravado to cover it. He’s really a gifted writer.
 
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Fender57

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Meanwhile, in Holiday Bowl news...

 

Fender57

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Meanwhile, in Holiday Bowl news...

Probably San Diego’s middle finger to SDSU for fucking up the money grab with Soccer City.
 
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